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And one more tonight.

This won't lead to massive corruption, I'm sure.
[Trump] said he had no legal obligation to establish boundaries between his business empire and his White House, conceding that the Trump brand “is certainly a hotter brand than it was before.” Still, he said he would try to figure out a way to insulate himself from his businesses, which would be run by his children.

[...]

Pressed to respond to criticism in other areas, he was defiant. He declared that “the law’s totally on my side” when it comes to questions about conflict of interest and ethics laws. “The president can’t have a conflict of interest,” he said.

 
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utoption2 wrote:
Elfbane wrote:
And one more tonight.

This won't lead to massive corruption, I'm sure.
[Trump] said he had no legal obligation to establish boundaries between his business empire and his White House, conceding that the Trump brand “is certainly a hotter brand than it was before.” Still, he said he would try to figure out a way to insulate himself from his businesses, which would be run by his children.

[...]

Pressed to respond to criticism in other areas, he was defiant. He declared that “the law’s totally on my side” when it comes to questions about conflict of interest and ethics laws. “The president can’t have a conflict of interest,” he said.



I am sure that he can learn a lot from his predecessors, including GW Bush (Oil), VP Cheney (Halliburton), The Clintons (Their Foundation), etc, etc.

Personally, I can hardly wait to have the opportunity to stay at a Trump hotel. The one in Chicago looks really nice and is in a prime location.


That's some nice deflecting and pivoting right there. I like how you guys so quickly normalize this travesty.
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utoption2 wrote:
Actually, I agree. He's going to have unwind his involvement in his operations. However, I was pointing out that some of his predecessors made a lot of money off their interests while in office. And yes, I'd love to stay at a Trump Hotel.


There's a certain amount of corruption I can take. I unfortunately accept it as normal. Maybe that's wrong. But this goes beyond all that. This doesn't even pay lip service to the notion that public office shouldn't be used to enrich oneself and one's family.

Quote:
Another potential conflict arose in the Times interview with Mr. Trump Tuesday, when he admitted that he “might have” spoken with British politician Nigel Farage about the issue of wind farms in the United Kingdom -- a topic that would have a direct impact on the value of the president-elect’s Scottish golf course.

Asked if he had encouraged Farage and those accompanying him to stop a controversial wind farm from obstructing the views at the golf resort, Trump said, “I might have brought it up.”


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-trump-meant-when-he-said-th...
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utoption2 wrote:
Well, as many people have pointed out to me, he's not the President, yet, so maybe he's trying to tie up matters of influence while he can. He definitely needs to use the next 60+ days to unwind his affairs so he can get on with leading the nation and avoid conflicts of interest which would be illegal (presumably) and diminish his reputation (definitely).


If that ends up happening, sure. No problem. Though as a parent, I don't see how his stated plan of turning his businesses over to his kids distances him at all.

On the other hand, if he just says fuck it, I'm not sure how illegal his conflicts of interest would be. If/when they cross international borders they might be grounds for impeachment, but maybe not more than that. Which I doubt happens with this Congress anyway.
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jasonwocky wrote:
Quote:
Another potential conflict arose in the Times interview with Mr. Trump Tuesday, when he admitted that he “might have” spoken with British politician Nigel Farage about the issue of wind farms in the United Kingdom -- a topic that would have a direct impact on the value of the president-elect’s Scottish golf course.

Asked if he had encouraged Farage and those accompanying him to stop a controversial wind farm from obstructing the views at the golf resort, Trump said, “I might have brought it up.”


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-trump-meant-when-he-said-th...

From the NYT article cited in my OP:
Quote:
Mr. Trump did not dispute reports that he had used a meeting last week with Nigel Farage, the U.K. Independence Party leader, to raise his opposition to offshore wind farms. Mr. Trump has long complained that wind farms would mar the view from his golf course in Aberdeenshire, Scotland.

“I might have brought it up,” Mr. Trump said, then argued he had done so because of policy concerns about wind farms rather than any personal interest.
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This can't possibly be OK to anyone who calls him or herself an American.

I can see "this is very bad but he's my president and I will give him a chance" or "this is very bad but Hillary would be even worse" or even "this is very bad but I can't see past my single issue (abortion, guns, etc).

What scares me is the "this is totally cool cause WE WON GO TEAM RRRRRRRR!" that seems to be running through this board right now. Not because this board or its posters matter, but because it seems like the Rs here are a pretty good sample of how most Rs think, and if most Rs really think "who gives a fuck what he does WE WON" or the relentless "this doesn't matter because CLINTON CLINTON CLINTON I CAN'T STOP TALKING ABOUT CLINTON AS IF SHE WERE IN CHARGE OF LITERALLY ANYTHING" the way the Rs here do, this nation is deeply fucked, because the Ds can't fix this shitstorm you fuckers created alone.
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rylfrazier wrote:
This can't possibly be OK to anyone who calls him or herself an American.

I can see "this is very bad but he's my president and I will give him a chance" or "this is very bad but Hillary would be even worse" or even "this is very bad but I can't see past my single issue (abortion, guns, etc).

What scares me is the "this is totally cool cause WE WON GO TEAM RRRRRRRR!" that seems to be running through this board right now. Not because this board or its posters matter, but because it seems like the Rs here are a pretty good sample of how most Rs think, and if most Rs really think "who gives a fuck what he does WE WON" or the relentless "this doesn't matter because CLINTON CLINTON CLINTON I CAN'T STOP TALKING ABOUT CLINTON AS IF SHE WERE IN CHARGE OF LITERALLY ANYTHING" the way the Rs here do, this nation is deeply fucked, because the Ds can't fix this shitstorm you fuckers created alone.
Watcha gonna do? Have Pence as President? Whine about it on the Internet? How about actually fix a broken system?

I did see plenty of Trump support along the lines electing him is like throwing a monkey wrench into the system. And most of Congress is corrupt (look at the average net worth of career politicians). If this guy doesn't get us to fix our electoral system, well you know what they say. "In a Democracy, you get the government you deserve."

Looks like no one is willing to reform the electoral system to support multiple parties. They all just want to bitch and moan about Trump and Clinton. Bread and circuses, man.
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utoption2 wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
This can't possibly be OK to anyone who calls him or herself an American.

I can see "this is very bad but he's my president and I will give him a chance" or "this is very bad but Hillary would be even worse" or even "this is very bad but I can't see past my single issue (abortion, guns, etc).

What scares me is the "this is totally cool cause WE WON GO TEAM RRRRRRRR!" that seems to be running through this board right now. Not because this board or its posters matter, but because it seems like the Rs here are a pretty good sample of how most Rs think, and if most Rs really think "who gives a fuck what he does WE WON" or the relentless "this doesn't matter because CLINTON CLINTON CLINTON I CAN'T STOP TALKING ABOUT CLINTON AS IF SHE WERE IN CHARGE OF LITERALLY ANYTHING" the way the Rs here do, this nation is deeply fucked, because the Ds can't fix this shitstorm you fuckers created alone.


I don't recall saying any of that? Maybe others are, but I didn't. My first point was kind of a joke and a reminder that other Presidents didn't exactly run squeaky clean operations and the second one clarified that he needs to unwind his operations.


I wasn't directing that at you, more to the larger bulk of R types.
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rylfrazier wrote:
This can't possibly be OK to anyone who calls him or herself an_"law/taxes abiding" American.
whistle FT4"USA-Americans" not in the IRAQette
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If you thought that he was paying no income tax before he became president just give it a few years.

And bankruptcy will consist of saying "I'm bankrupt" three times, telling all your creditors to fuck off and then going back to doing exactly the same thing you were doing before.
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Elfbane wrote:
jasonwocky wrote:
Quote:
Another potential conflict arose in the Times interview with Mr. Trump Tuesday, when he admitted that he “might have” spoken with British politician Nigel Farage about the issue of wind farms in the United Kingdom -- a topic that would have a direct impact on the value of the president-elect’s Scottish golf course.

Asked if he had encouraged Farage and those accompanying him to stop a controversial wind farm from obstructing the views at the golf resort, Trump said, “I might have brought it up.”


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-trump-meant-when-he-said-th...

From the NYT article cited in my OP:
Quote:
Mr. Trump did not dispute reports that he had used a meeting last week with Nigel Farage, the U.K. Independence Party leader, to raise his opposition to offshore wind farms. Mr. Trump has long complained that wind farms would mar the view from his golf course in Aberdeenshire, Scotland.

“I might have brought it up,” Mr. Trump said, then argued he had done so because of policy concerns about wind farms rather than any personal interest.

...which is fucking hilarious, because Farage is not even a member of Parliament , he has all the political clout of a cheese shoelace.
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TRUMP BROS: "Yea, Trump is racist/misogynist, but Clinton is SO CORRUPT. And Trump is so honest, he tells it LIKE IT IS."

Two weeks after Trump wins, he continues to use his position to further and mix business interests with politics, and none of his supporters seem to care one iota.

And he's flip-flopped on several campaign promises ALREADY, because of course he did.

Look, we get it, you didn't like Clinton, but quit pretending like it was for any rationale fucking reason.
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Shampoo4you wrote:
TRUMP BROS: "Yea, Trump is racist/misogynist, but Clinton is SO CORRUPT. And Trump is so honest, he tells it LIKE IT IS."
The funny thing is your insult isn't actually taken as an insult by it's target audience. Trump is openly saying he doesn't need to follow conflict of interest rules (and technically he doesn't). Clinton on the other hand pretended to do so and look at how much personal wealth they have with no career other than being politicians and being on the "board" of a foundation with their name on it.

The problem is you cannot view your insult of Republicans from any other frame of reference. They are both corrupt, the only difference is one is taking the money over the table, the other under and pretending that they aren't. To those you are insulting for being stupid that is an upgrade, not a downgrade. They view your insult as a result of your stupidity not theirs.

*Disclaimer, not a Trump or Clinton supporter here. This is just an impartial observation. Lest you call me a moron again which does nothing to advance the conversation to which I haven't actually taken a side.
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mtagge wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
TRUMP BROS: "Yea, Trump is racist/misogynist, but Clinton is SO CORRUPT. And Trump is so honest, he tells it LIKE IT IS."
The funny thing is your insult isn't actually taken as an insult by it's target audience. Trump is openly saying he doesn't need to follow conflict of interest rules (and technically he doesn't). Clinton on the other hand pretended to do so and look at how much personal wealth they have with no career other than being politicians and being on the "board" of a foundation with their name on it.

The problem is you cannot view your insult of Republicans from any other frame of reference. They are both corrupt, the only difference is one is taking the money over the table, the other under and pretending that they aren't. To those you are insulting for being stupid that is an upgrade, not a downgrade. They view your insult as a result of your stupidity not theirs.

*Disclaimer, not a Trump or Clinton supporter here. This is just an impartial observation. Lest you call me a moron again which does nothing to advance the conversation to which I haven't actually taken a side.


Republicans don't admit to taking money "over the table". Trump's entire appeal to the working class was that yes, he took advantage of the system, but once he is there he would fix it and stop the corruption. Yet he hasn't even taken the oath and he's using the office to further his business interests. Uneducated whites (and to be fair, also some minorities) bought it hook, line, and sinker. They think he will magically rebuild the factories in the Midwest. Pretty damn naive, right? If new factories ARE built, they will be modern ones with automation. They will employ engineers, many of them skilled immigrants, not Joe Wisconsin who was SO SURE that somehow Trump would bring his job back from overseas.

Trump and the rest of the 1% will line their pockets and laugh all the way to the bank. The working class will suffer even more. The good news is, Republicans will have no one else to blame in 2020 and many of these voters will (hopefully) realize they've been had.

Do you really think Clinton supporters are even more ignorant? Most (I would say every) respectable Republicans either distanced themselves from Trump or unendorsed him altogether (roughly 1/3 of the party did). That is unprecedented in either party. Anyone with half a brain knew what was going on. The GOP may have won the Presidential battle, but after the disaster of Trump they will have lost the war. They'll lose working class whites again AND minorities for generations. Trump sold them all a false promise he can't possibly deliver.
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I'll go on record as preferring Trump to Clinton (although I voted third party) because of his proclivity for telling it like it is.* They're both out to screw the ignorant masses and accumulate personal wealth and power (as are most pols). Trump is much more open about it. Obama promised transparency, Trump delivers.

Now maybe the American people will be fed up enough that they'll actually demand change. Trump certainly won't deliver it, but may prove to be the catalyst that starts the mini(I hope) revolution.




*yes, he often plays the political game of different messages for different audiences, but you don't have to look to far to see his underlying motivations.
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qzhdad wrote:
*yes, he often plays the political game of different messages for different audiences, but you don't have to look to far to see his underlying motivations.


That doesn't sound like 'telling it like it is'. That more sounds like bald faced lying but not being very good at hiding it.
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utoption2 wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
This can't possibly be OK to anyone who calls him or herself an American.

I can see "this is very bad but he's my president and I will give him a chance" or "this is very bad but Hillary would be even worse" or even "this is very bad but I can't see past my single issue (abortion, guns, etc).

What scares me is the "this is totally cool cause WE WON GO TEAM RRRRRRRR!" that seems to be running through this board right now. Not because this board or its posters matter, but because it seems like the Rs here are a pretty good sample of how most Rs think, and if most Rs really think "who gives a fuck what he does WE WON" or the relentless "this doesn't matter because CLINTON CLINTON CLINTON I CAN'T STOP TALKING ABOUT CLINTON AS IF SHE WERE IN CHARGE OF LITERALLY ANYTHING" the way the Rs here do, this nation is deeply fucked, because the Ds can't fix this shitstorm you fuckers created alone.


I don't recall saying any of that? Maybe others are, but I didn't. My first point was kind of a joke and a reminder that other Presidents didn't exactly run squeaky clean operations and the second one clarified that he needs to unwind his operations.


Except for the rather inconvenient fact that he appears to not be about to "unwind" his operations. In his own words

Quote:

"The billionaire real estate developer also dismissed any need to disentangle himself from his financial holdings, despite rising questions about how his global business dealings might affect his decision-making as the nation’s chief executive.

“The law’s totally on my side. The president can’t have a conflict of interest,” Trump told editors and reporters of the New York Times during an expansive, hour-long question-and-answer session. “In theory, I could run my business perfectly and then run the country perfectly. There’s never been a case like this.”"


https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/trump-says-he-could-...

What we are witnessing now is probably just prelude. Trump seems to have no problem with gorging his companies at the public expense, because the law exempts him. As well as just adding new buddies to the swamp rather than draining it. Evidenced by the presence of lobbyists in his transition team at the outset.

Which means of course hes giving a nice middle finger to his voters by proving they were complete morons for buying the "I'll fix that broken system". Proof of this was his tax "reform" proposal that benefited the 1% the most while costing the country trillions in extra debt. Those voters that is that weren't voting for him due to his bigotry as prejudice that is
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I'm sure Trump will be giving thanks to all the gullible idiots that voted for him today.
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mtagge wrote:
Clinton on the other hand pretended to do so and look at how much personal wealth they have with no career other than being politicians and being on the "board" of a foundation with their name on it.


The Clintons' wealth is almost entirely from Bill's speaking fees. (Hillary gave a lot of paid speeches as well but most of the Clintons' wealth was generated by Bill.) There are only a few living ex-Presidents, so getting them to appear and give a speech is expensive if they're not inclined to give you a speech for free.
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mightygodking wrote:
mtagge wrote:
Clinton on the other hand pretended to do so and look at how much personal wealth they have with no career other than being politicians and being on the "board" of a foundation with their name on it.


The Clintons' wealth is almost entirely from Bill's speaking fees. (Hillary gave a lot of paid speeches as well but most of the Clintons' wealth was generated by Bill.) There are only a few living ex-Presidents, so getting them to appear and give a speech is expensive if they're not inclined to give you a speech for free.


Reagan, Bush, and Bush all do/did it and yet the same people bleating about the Clintons doing this don't seem to care. Reagan went to Japan in 1989 (the year he left office) and made MILLIONS doing a couple of speaking engagements.
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Dolphinandrew wrote:
qzhdad wrote:
*yes, he often plays the political game of different messages for different audiences, but you don't have to look to far to see his underlying motivations.


That doesn't sound like 'telling it like it is'. That more sounds like bald faced lying but not being very good at hiding it.
HIS 'message' WAS-(as in PAST tense) with "drain the swamp" and how far unto any 'morass' & "quagmire" WERE 'indicators' required for them now, instead?
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It looks like he is violating the constitution right now.

http://www.heritage.org/constitution/?_escaped_fragment_=/ar...

He can't constitutionally be president and be receiving payments and income from foreign leaders and foreign governments.

This is what I meant when i said elsewhere that mr. trump's ignorance of the constitution and the law will result in a long string of illegal acts as president.

I'm waiting to see how constitutional conservatives are going to rationalize this.
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Tump was/is such an unknown political quantity that nobody know what exactly is going to show up to the the presidency.

However, I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that the least bad version of himself is a crass New York huckster-plutocrat who knew all along his campaign promises were bullshit, and is really all about making life easier for the 0.001% (as opposed to cultural warrior, bellicose foreign policy dipshit, xenophobe, etc).
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From what I can see reading this thread the whining never ends. We got people citing the constitution and talking impeachment and this yahoo hasn't even taken office yet. You guys are a bunch of fucking crybabies. Your hero, Barack Jesus Obama ans his Bridezilla, the terror of the school lunchroom, Michelle, were worth a collective $1.7 mil when the black Jesus took office. Now, coming up on 8 years later they have a wroth of nearly $13M buckaroos. Add that shit up, 8 x $400K doesn't account for that especially considering Barry spent about $300K a year on greens fees, goofy looking shorts and mom jeans. So these guys have about an 800% increase in wealth while Barry is in office and it's crickets. But you;re ready to secede from the union because a guy who isn't even president yet hasn't figured out how to insulate himself from a $3B fortune he made while not being a public servant?

Bunch of whiny pusses.
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