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Subject: Can non-tile goods be removed from boards? rss

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Len K
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So, this came up only because my wife watched this video: video
(BTW the video is great but there do seem to be a couple other rules infractions)

I've played Odin with 2 groups now, and everyone has played that all goods - silver, wood, stone, and ore as well as tiles - are 'locked' on the boards once played.

This video shows players removing already-played wood from building tiles to pay for things like hunting & whaling.

I re-read the rules, and p. 13 does say "Once you place a goods tile on a board or house..." Doesn't refer to resources!

I've played enough Combat Commander to know not to infer a rule that's not there; but it does seem against the spirit of the rules to allow resources to be removed from boards.

Maybe this is a translation error in the English rules? (Unlike other places in the rulebook, there's no friendly clarification from Uwe...)

So, which is it? I can remove wood etc., or no?
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Rich P
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There's no need to place wood or stone onto your houses and sheds until the end of the game, to counteract the negative points. If you like, you can put them there earlier on for convenience, but spend the wood or stone as you need it. Hopefully you'll collect some more wood/stone to replace it with later. I'm not sure the rules mention it but it seems fine to me to do this. There's no in-game reason to be strict about it.
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GAF Blizzard
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I feel the intention is that once you've decided on a layout, resources should never be removed. Yes it might not matter for wood and stone, but two points:

1. There's one card that allows you to actually cover normal spaces with wood in houses. This could net you bonuses midgame, and I think it would definitely be illegal (per rules intention if not explicit wording) to undo an already claimed bonus.

2. Silver can be placed on all boards, including covering income and claiming bonuses. I think silver would also be illegal to remove, especially since it could undo an already claimed bonus or make income square coverage become illegal.

*edit* I forgot Ore. The same argument applies as pointed out by the below poster.
 
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Philip Morton
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woodnoggin wrote:
There's no need to place wood or stone onto your houses and sheds until the end of the game, to counteract the negative points. If you like, you can put them there earlier on for convenience, but spend the wood or stone as you need it. Hopefully you'll collect some more wood/stone to replace it with later. I'm not sure the rules mention it but it seems fine to me to do this. There's no in-game reason to be strict about it.

It definitely matters for Ore and Silver, and it matters for Wood if you get the occupation that lets you place Wood on longhouse grid spaces. I'm fairly certain you're not allowed to use any of those to trigger income/bonuses and then remove or replace them with other things later, as it seems to me that it would trivialize bonuses, lead to shifting all your ore/silver from bonus/income-granting spots to negative-point spots on the last turn, and require the rules for covering income-granting spaces to specify that you can't "back into" an invalid state by removing silver/ore from the square behind a covered income spot.
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Len K
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woodnoggin wrote:
There's no need to place wood or stone onto your houses and sheds until the end of the game, to counteract the negative points. If you like, you can put them there earlier on for convenience, but spend the wood or stone as you need it. Hopefully you'll collect some more wood/stone to replace it with later. I'm not sure the rules mention it but it seems fine to me to do this. There's no in-game reason to be strict about it.

This one example does make sense, and it was exactly this action (removing wood from the 'oval' space on a shed or stone house) that was in the video.
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Rich P
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Chrondeath wrote:
woodnoggin wrote:
There's no need to place wood or stone onto your houses and sheds until the end of the game, to counteract the negative points. If you like, you can put them there earlier on for convenience, but spend the wood or stone as you need it. Hopefully you'll collect some more wood/stone to replace it with later. I'm not sure the rules mention it but it seems fine to me to do this. There's no in-game reason to be strict about it.

It definitely matters for Ore and Silver, and it matters for Wood if you get the occupation that lets you place Wood on longhouse grid spaces. I'm fairly certain you're not allowed to use any of those to trigger income/bonuses and then remove or replace them with other things later, as it seems to me that it would trivialize bonuses, lead to shifting all your ore/silver from bonus/income-granting spots to negative-point spots on the last turn, and require the rules for covering income-granting spaces to specify that you can't "back into" an invalid state by removing silver/ore from the square behind a covered income spot.


True but I only mentioned wood and stone in my post. I agree you can't take back placement of iron or silver that you've used to claim a bonus.

There is also an Occupation which gives you silver whenever you place wood in a shed, up to once per round. If you have that card in play, you shouldn't be able to take your wood back from your sheds, so worth tracking more carefully in that situation.
 
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Philip Morton
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woodnoggin wrote:
There is also an Occupation which gives you silver whenever you place wood in a shed, up to once per round. If you have that card in play, you shouldn't be able to take your wood back from your sheds, so worth tracking more carefully in that situation.

I don't see any reason to allow/encourage placing wood/stone on your sheds before the end of the game. If it's a new player making a mistake, sure, but the correction should be "remove the ones you put on and don't put them back on until the end of the game", not "keep putting wood/ore in your sheds and removing it as you need it."
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Mohammad Ali
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Some people organize their stuff to prepare for the end of the game. Encourage them to put the pieces "next to" their board, basically so close they won't forget to save some goods for later.
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Alex Nguyen
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k1nu wrote:
p. 13 does say "Once you place a goods tile on a board or house..." Doesn't refer to resources!


The appendix (p.12) also seems to imply what you're getting at.
 
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Alex Nguyen
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Chrondeath wrote:
I don't see any reason to allow/encourage placing wood/stone on your sheds before the end of the game.


The appendix backs this point up.

p.15 wrote:
(Usually there is no reason to place the resources any
earlier, unless you have an occupation card that says otherwise.)


But sometimes it's fun to place stuff in sheds in games like this, and then use it when you need it. ;-)
 
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David Grabiner
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woodnoggin wrote:
There's no need to place wood or stone onto your houses and sheds until the end of the game, to counteract the negative points. If you like, you can put them there earlier on for convenience, but spend the wood or stone as you need it. Hopefully you'll collect some more wood/stone to replace it with later. I'm not sure the rules mention it but it seems fine to me to do this. There's no in-game reason to be strict about it.


There is one exception. Steward (42b) gives you one silver each round that you place a wood or stone in a shed. Therefore, if you have Steward, you may want to build a shed in round 2, placing one wood or stone for each of the final six rounds.
 
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