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Krosmaster Junior» Forums » General

Subject: Shame on you!! rss

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Brandon Wilson
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I recently purchased Krosmaster Junior at a used board-game sale as a potential gift for my 7-year old nephew. I brought it home, and wanted to check the component quality before gift-wrapping it. When I opened the box, I was pleasantly surprised at the quality of the miniatures until I took a closer look...

The model for Choppy Sue made me do a double-take. She is a cute little (fox-girl?) warrior wielding a large sword, set in a slightly sexualized fighting stance. She is wearing a draped tunic that is slit down the sides, and no pants. The sculpt has exposed thighs and the curvature of her butt cheeks showing from below the revealing upper garment.

The board game industry already has a problem with the over-sexualized representation of women, and this game has decided to present these stereotypes to children! The box claims this game is for ages 7+... what is wrong with this picture?

We are in a golden age of gaming that is rapidly growing and reaching-out to more people. The industry should be embracing this by creating safe spaces for people to gather and enjoy themselves around the shared experience of gaming. We should NOT be tolerant of practices that would introduce gender-bias and propagate stereotyping. Don't we want our daughters, granddaughters and nieces to enjoy the gaming experience as well? Why would we create the potential to exclude young female gamers or run the risk of perpetuating "body-shaming?" Shame on you, Krosmaster, for your lack of empathy with a very serious problem. Shame on you for attempting to market this for kids.

For the record, I painted over your blunder and made it look like she was wearing black tights. This was very simple fix, and would have cost you nothing... Maybe a little more foresight and empathy is required in your future productions.

** addendum **

Are these characters supposed to depict children themselves? If so, this is even worse. You are sending the message to young women that they can only be the hero of the story if they are half-naked.
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Joe Crane
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Brave of you to protect people from the human body, it's just shameful for woman to show skin. But you are right, woman can only be heroes if they completely cover up their bodies and are ashamed of their bodies. Keep up the fight, the world needs brave men making sure woman keep dressing modestly! We can't let them decide, down that path leads anarchy!
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True-Neutral
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I take it you've never seen the online game Wakfu or, in general, Dofus. The characters are deformed versions of the game counterparts. Besides, Arena and Quest are for 13 to 14 years. Junior is for children who want to learn the basics or want to play quick games.

I understand and respect your opinion but if you are someone who is offended by even trivial things, I strongly suggest you trade it in for something else as there are characters similar to Choppy Sue and Mil Kluva in appearance. If, however, you are someone who likes to make false statements on the net, I suggest you turn off your router and think about your life.
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Brandon Wilson
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Since both of you have seemed to miss the point of my post completely, and instead have focused your responses toward what you thought was the point, allow me to reiterate in a more concise way: this is not appropriate for children.

Every person has the right to decide how they wish to portray their own sexuality, whether it be in the clothes they wear, the music they listen to, the way the spend their free time, and even the board games they play. None of this is in the scope of my argument.

However, this conceptualization of sexual identity is reserved for individuals who possess the maturity to understand not only the implications of their choices, but also the repercussions. Many countries have laws that are meant to define a specific age at which a person may make rational decisions about their own sexuality, but I doubt anyone would be willing to argue that a 7-year-old belongs in this category.

You want your T&A? Fine, I'm not stopping you. But don't try and tell me that it's ok to stick it in a box labelled "Junior" and market for ages 7+...
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Joe Crane
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CptSkamerica wrote:
Since both of you have seemed to miss the point of my post completely, and instead have focused your responses toward what you thought was the point, allow me to reiterate in a more concise way: this is not appropriate for children.

Every person has the right to decide how they wish to portray their own sexuality, whether it be in the clothes they wear, the music they listen to, the way the spend their free time, and even the board games they play. None of this is in the scope of my argument.

However, this conceptualization of sexual identity is reserved for individuals who possess the maturity to understand not only the implications of their choices, but also the repercussions. Many countries have laws that are meant to define a specific age at which a person may make rational decisions about their own sexuality, but I doubt anyone would be willing to argue that a 7-year-old belongs in this category.

You want your T&A? Fine, I'm not stopping you. But don't try and tell me that it's ok to stick it in a box labelled "Junior" and market for ages 7+...
So I can't take kids to the beach until they are 18? Or any store with mannequins or posters of models? Or tv, or heck, billboards as you drive by? And fyi, aviod barbies at all cost which are marketed at younger then 7, spoiler though, the clothes come off and their is nothing underneath... literately, smooth as a ken doll nothing underneath.
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Joe Crane
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Also are you comparing the age of consent for sex with playing with a doll/action figure?
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Richard
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What's appropriate for children is not a universal constant. Check out children cartoons in Japan.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong as that's your judgement and choice as a parent, but also, shame? How about just saying you don't want it for your child and move on?

They're not doing porno nor anything illegal, so this is purely of an aesthetical choice. Nothing wrong with whatever you decide but attacking the creators probably won't accomplish what you think.
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The all-seeing, all-knowing, all-trollin' Mike Hutton
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I'm confused.....are you concerned that people may try and have sex with the figures instead of playing with them?
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Brandon Wilson
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Coren wrote:
What's appropriate for children is not a universal constant. Check out children cartoons in Japan.


That is true, and this is the main reason I mentioned the fact that different countries have different laws pertaining to what is and is not considered to be the "acceptable" age for sexual independence. There is no universal constant for appropriateness, but there are precedents. In general, a young girl has no idea why wearing a thong and stockings might be a bad idea, as they are not prepared to understand the implications of their own sexuality. And yet, they may see their role models in pop culture doing this and only think that they wish to emulate. I believe the same logic applies here.

If a young girl wishes to be involved in fantasy games or role-playing, there currently exist a vast majority of female characters that flaunt their sexuality in ways that these girls are not able to understand. When someone grows up, and has the capacity to make these decisions for themselves, then I see no reason for them to refrain from seeking-out characters that embody their own beliefs about what is and is not acceptable. But again, I say, that 7 is too young to be inundated with these depictions. Let there be strong female characters for them to "look-up to" and fantasize about being, without them needing to think that they need to be half-naked.

mhutton wrote:
I'm confused.....are you concerned that people may try and have sex with the figures instead of playing with them?


As I said above, whatever you choose to do with your free time is none of my concern
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Joe Crane
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So if someone has a foot fetish should we cover up the feet and tell girls to be ashamed of them? Do you paint over the guys naked arms and chests, or is that ok for them to show off? These are deformed figures, how anyone could take them in a sexual way is beyond me but I do support your choice to live your life how you want and if that gets you going good for you. But I might suggest picking a different battle over sexy figures then krosmaster. Like say any other board game out there with minis.
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Brandon Wilson
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Joe, you seem to be falling victim to false equivalence; a logical fallacy in which you are "describing a situation of logical and apparent equivalence, when in fact there is none."

You seem to think that I am championing the cause of the modest, seeking to quell freedom of expression in all forms. The world is not quite so binary, and neither is my argument.

I am not suggesting that women need to dress or act any particular way. In fact, my argument is suggesting quite the opposite: that anyone has the right to make such decisions at such a time that they are mature enough to handle those decisions.

I am not suggesting that anyone "be ashamed" of their bodies. Again, I am arguing the opposite: when the primary depiction of the female form in board gaming is the half-naked heroine, this can actually contribute to body shaming, as it can alienate women who don't have the "perfect body" or don't want to show that much skin.

You are correct about one thing: these are deformed figures. Barbies, anime characters, billboard advertisements, and other similar media all depict characters in a form that is over-idealized. All warrior women have perfect sculpted abs and comically large breasts. But it's folly to assume that these depictions have no impact on the psyche of our youth. It creates a sense that the only way to be beautiful is to attain the unattainable: to look just like plastic figures or photo-shopped models. The Choppy Sue figure in particular is not some abstract representation of a fox or other animal, she has sculpted human butt-cheeks.

And since you like to create analogies in an attempt to misrepresent what you perceive to be my point of view, allow me to craft a couple of analogies to more succinctly convey to you my true point of view: you don't show a trailer for Game of Thrones at a showing of Finding Dory, you don't put Victoria Secret ads in Highlights Magazine, and you don't stock sex toys right next to the Barbies in the toy store.

I am not condemning Krosmaster Arena, or any other similar board game. I am condemning Krosmaster Junior for putting a sexually suggestive model into a game marketed for children.

And that's it! That's the extent of this post, which has somehow been blown-up into some grand over-arching commentary on suppressing all forms of media and freedom(??). These interpretations you have concocted were never said by me, and do not represent my point of view.

** addendum **

As for the "don't look if you don't like it" arguments, I agree with you completely. If I was offended by skin, I would avoid the beach because I have an expectation of what I will see (skin!). This is also why movies have ratings; to allow people to make more informed decisions about what content they wish to see. I would never buy Tanto Cuore or Barbarossa for a child, because I have an expectation of what is in the box.

The rating system failed for this game. It is not representative of the content inside, which is inappropriate for the target age group.
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Joe Crane
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You wrote an open letter telling a board game company that since you found their little plastic toys sexual suggestive they should be ashamed. Which in case you didn't understand how open letters work it opens you up for people to point out how crazy you sound, or agree with you or just talk about, which is what is happening here. Or did you think you were writing an private email to the company? But this just seems irrational, there is a open window showing the minis in the box. All you have to do is look at the box, they aren't hiding anything at all. Literally an open window into the box. And yet you say it's their fault you didn't look at the box? "The rating system failed for this game. It is not representative of the content inside, which is inappropriate for the target age group." again, they show you what's in the box, it's your job as a parent to be more informed of what you do, not blame a company and tell them they should be ashamed of the toys that no one else seems to be upset about. And you are saying it's not appropriate for children, how long has this game been out without anyone complaining about "The sculpt has exposed thighs and the curvature of her butt cheeks showing from below the revealing upper garment.". Where has the out rage been? You are saying that your perspective on thighs and butt cheeks is the universal standard. No proof just it's not right. And now something about sex toys and barbie toys... Are you saying this game is a sex toy?
 
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Derry Salewski
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Post a picture or it didn't happen.

NOTHING in the gallery on this site backs up anything you're saying.
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Brandon Wilson
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This is the best I could find.
 
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Duncan Idaho
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VaeVictis666 wrote:
You wrote an open letter telling a board game company that since you found their little plastic toys sexual suggestive they should be ashamed.


He wrote an open letter telling a board game company that they shouldn't include sexually suggestive plastic toys in a game specifically called "Junior" and thus, presumably, aimed at a much younger audience. By leaving that out of your rebuttal, you're undercutting the force of it.

I honestly don't see the character in question as being all that bad, and I'd happily play this with any of my young cousins (I don't yet have children of my own; maybe this opinion would change if I did). But most of the rebuttals here are ignoring that the brunt of his problem is with calling the product Krosmaster Junior, not with including a sexually suggestive figure.

The rest of your post seems to suggest you didn't read any of his posts in full, and this is coming from someone who is, overall, on your side of the debate.
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Idaho-What I'm gonna say may(or not) reflect everyone else's views but I'm also not fond of a sexy character in a childrens game. I also believe two things:
1.They were trying to make a basic RPG team that you can also use in the other Kros games(fighter, thief, mage and, somehow, a thief?). Sue is an Iop, which are the normal fighters in Dofus, hence the fighter position.

2.Sue has the not-really-suggestive pose because they already have the mold for the female Iop, making designing her easy. If they wanted a male Iop they would either spend time and money on a new mold or use the molds for the promo characters(which may have been destroyed).

Skamerica-Ankama only does Europe distribution, Japanime just sold the last of their American supply to another US distributor and CMON only has Quest and Arena 2.0 and is currently focused on HMSS. Your letter, for the monment, has only reached deaf ears.
 
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