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Subject: Zogar Sag: Where's the magic, man? rss

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Andrew Gill
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So, according to the character sheet Zogar can cast spells. But, in all of the scenarios in the base game he's not equipped with any. Is there an errata update I'm missing, or does he only get magic in later adventures, that I create - hopefully invovling some kind of a blood feud with Yag-kosha.
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Aditya C
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If the scenario doesn't give him spells he simply doesn't have them for the specific scenario.
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François Mahieu
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Caibre wrote:
If the scenario doesn't give him spells he simply doesn't have them for the specific scenario.


Well. Maybe. Though I myself did choose a pair of spells for him at the beginning. Funnier.


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Emivaldo Sousa
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I found this a really bizarre choice. If the game had 30 scenarios I would understand the lack of spells (or abilities) for some choice adventures.

But with only eight, you gotta show me what you got there.

Not only the scenarios are restricted, but spells and abilities are weirdly absent. We have a scenario in the sea that you cannot use swim, two-handed abilities without two-handed weapons, and sorcerers without spells.

That's a very weird decision.
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Justin Colm
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zinho73 wrote:
I found this a really bizarre choice. If the game had 30 scenarios I would understand the lack of spells (or abilities) for some choice adventures.

But with only eight, you gotta show me what you got there.

Not only the scenarios are restricted, but spells and abilities are weirdly absent. We have a scenario in the sea that you cannot use swim, two-handed abilities without two-handed weapons, and sorcerers without spells.

That's a very weird decision.



I think it was probably a case of deadlines. The scenarios were 'good enough' to go, so they go, rather than continuing to fiddle with them to work in more intricacies like these and delay fulfilment further.

I suspect that's also why there's 4 or 5 player scaling for the 1st two scenarios and not the others: they had a lot more time to test them and work that variety into the design.

This is why I don't have a problem with waiting for the various extra scenarios to be printed online and in the Kickstarter campaign book: my previous experience with Kickstarter is that it's better for these things to be slow than rushed. The more time they can spend on the scenarios the more polished and less broken they will be.

I do agree though that they need a Pirate ship scenario where the players can actually use the entire board and swim. I'm sure there will be one, not least because Thaug (the giant sea monster) currently needs a scenario.

AS for Zag's magic, I think we can assume his use of magic in his powerful attack: after all, it's not like he can be using brute force is it? Just think of him using indeterminate magic when he attacks.
 
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Daniel U. Thibault
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High Flying Bird wrote:

This is why I don't have a problem with waiting for the various extra scenarios to be printed online and in the Kickstarter campaign book: my previous experience with Kickstarter is that it's better for these things to be slow than rushed. The more time they can spend on the scenarios the more polished and less broken they will be.


What Kickstarter campaign book?
 
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Mathue Faulk
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Urhixidur wrote:
High Flying Bird wrote:

This is why I don't have a problem with waiting for the various extra scenarios to be printed online and in the Kickstarter campaign book: my previous experience with Kickstarter is that it's better for these things to be slow than rushed. The more time they can spend on the scenarios the more polished and less broken they will be.


What Kickstarter campaign book?

There was an add-on campaign book available to Kickstarter backers.

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Emivaldo Sousa
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mfaulk80 wrote:
Urhixidur wrote:
High Flying Bird wrote:

This is why I don't have a problem with waiting for the various extra scenarios to be printed online and in the Kickstarter campaign book: my previous experience with Kickstarter is that it's better for these things to be slow than rushed. The more time they can spend on the scenarios the more polished and less broken they will be.


What Kickstarter campaign book?

There was an add-on campaign book available to Kickstarter backers.



This should have been in the game. Being a kickstarter exclusive is even more nonsensical.
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Emivaldo Sousa
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High Flying Bird wrote:

AS for Zag's magic, I think we can assume his use of magic in his powerful attack: after all, it's not like he can be using brute force is it? Just think of him using indeterminate magic when he attacks.


Roleplaying is fine, but the fact that the scenarios might not be thematic does not bother me.

The problem to me is having all the tools(including money and 2 years) to add depth and replayability to the game and failing to do so.
 
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Oak Wolf
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I agree that it'd be more dynamic to have him do some magic in the game, although...they perhaps simply put the skill icons there for potential scenarios in the future. It is logical anyway since he is obviously a spellcaster.

In that particular story (book), Zogar Sag seems to do big shamanistic ritual things rather than straight wizardly abracadabra stuff (unlike Salome for example).

His control of the giant primordial beasts (snake and tiger) is part of his magic, as is his unnatural toughness. In fact his physical might is relative to some daemon that is not at the camp when Conan gets there.
 
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Emivaldo Sousa
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Sybaris wrote:
I agree that it'd be more dynamic to have him do some magic in the game, although in that particular story (books), Zogar Sag seems to do big shamanistic ritual things rather than straight wizardly abracadabra stuff (unlike Salome)...they perhaps simply put the skill icons there for potential scenarios in the future.

His control of the giant primordial beasts is part of his magic, as is his unnatural toughness. In fact his physical might is relative to some daemon that is not at the camp when Conan gets there.


Thematically it might be understandable or justified somehow. From a gameplay perspective it does not make sense. There is a ton of unused stuff in the box and since the scenarios are fixed, the more varied gameplay they can accommodate the better.

It is like making a WW2 game with tanks on it, but only with scenarios that uses just infantry. And then justify it by saying that, historically, no tanks were used on the battles represented by the scenarios.
 
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Mathue Faulk
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zinho73 wrote:


This should have been in the game. Being a kickstarter exclusive is even more nonsensical.

Well, the book is exclusive. I could see them releasing the scenarios online.
 
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Stephan Beal
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zinho73 wrote:
We have a scenario in the sea that you cannot use swim, two-handed abilities without two-handed weapons, and sorcerers without spells.


Correction: any weapon with a weight of 3 or more is considered "two handed" (or "heavy", depending on one's thematic interpretation).
 
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Richard A. Edwards
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mfaulk80 wrote:
zinho73 wrote:


This should have been in the game. Being a kickstarter exclusive is even more nonsensical.

Well, the book is exclusive. I could see them releasing the scenarios online.

I think the campaign requires things that are part of the Kickstarter Exclusives, so it wouldn't make sense to include it in retail copies or offer it as a PDF to non-KS backers.
 
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Stephan Beal
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SirRoke wrote:
I think the campaign requires things that are part of the Kickstarter Exclusives, so it wouldn't make sense to include it in retail copies or offer it as a PDF to non-KS backers.


This is going to be a notable no-buy point for gamers savvy enough to research the game [here on BGG] before buying it. IMHO it is regrettable that Monolith drives a wedge between the KS and non-KS players by providing so many KS-only scenarios (measured in percentage of existing scenarios). If Monolith also provided a large library of scenarios (perhaps mostly online) for the retail game, this wouldn't bug me as much. Monolith has expressed an interest in such, but so far shows no signs of being able to deliver on that in a timeframe which will please both the KS backers and the new retail backers who are currently picking up the game. This is going to hurt the game's popularity (and thus financial viability) long-term (in that the negative PR generated now will impact future sales). It's kind of like the launch of the Nintendo Wii way back when: it had something like 2.7 playable titles for the first year of its life before it picked up enough popularity to support more developers. Nintendo could afford to play such a long-term game with their platform, but Monolith is in no similar position. Monolith "really needed" to have more scenarios (even if primarily online) at launch, in particular more scenarios usable by the retail package. They also need to publish the "assets" (images and layout) they use in scenario creation so that The Community [which they've always said they want for Conan] can start publishing scenarios in a consistent format. They've dropped the ball badly on that, IMO, squandering the potential momentum for community-generated scenarios by not publishing a scenario asset kit. They missed an opportunity to take advantage of the initial (and single largest) swell of enthusiasm for the game by not having those assets available at launch-time.

Anyway... didn't really intend to get all religious there.
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Daniel U. Thibault
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Even curiouser is the fact that Zogar Sag and several other villains have Hero sheets (and there are Overlord tiles for each Hero). So...we can expect scenarios where the villains are assaulting the good guys?
 
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Emivaldo Sousa
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SirRoke wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:
zinho73 wrote:


This should have been in the game. Being a kickstarter exclusive is even more nonsensical.

Well, the book is exclusive. I could see them releasing the scenarios online.

I think the campaign requires things that are part of the Kickstarter Exclusives, so it wouldn't make sense to include it in retail copies or offer it as a PDF to non-KS backers.

I wasn't thinking so literally. What I meant is that more scenarios and a campaign would help the game tremendously.
 
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Emivaldo Sousa
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sgbeal wrote:
zinho73 wrote:
We have a scenario in the sea that you cannot use swim, two-handed abilities without two-handed weapons, and sorcerers without spells.


Correction: any weapon with a weight of 3 or more is considered "two handed" (or "heavy", depending on one's thematic interpretation).


Yeah, but there are scenarios without any weapon of weight of 3, and heroes who could use them. As I said, understandable if you have more scenarios to chose from. Since it is not the case, I guess most scenarios should use everything available: spells, 3 weight weapons (if we must ), swim, climb, leap and so on. Not only to showcase whats in the box, but to give us more options and tactical considerations with what we have.
 
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Ken H
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If you don't like something then change it when you play.
 
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Emivaldo Sousa
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Musketeer_Ken wrote:
If you don't like something then change it when you play.

It is not a matter of what I like, because I actually like the game. However, liking it does not stop me to see that with a little bit more of care and focus on the scenarios the game would feel more complete from the get go and would not depend so much on house rules, experimentation and the community.
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glen bruton
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sgbeal wrote:
SirRoke wrote:
I think the campaign requires things that are part of the Kickstarter Exclusives, so it wouldn't make sense to include it in retail copies or offer it as a PDF to non-KS backers.


This is going to be a notable no-buy point for gamers savvy enough to research the game [here on BGG] before buying it. IMHO it is regrettable that Monolith drives a wedge between the KS and non-KS players by providing so many KS-only scenarios (measured in percentage of existing scenarios). If Monolith also provided a large library of scenarios (perhaps mostly online) for the retail game, this wouldn't bug me as much. Monolith has expressed an interest in such, but so far shows no signs of being able to deliver on that in a timeframe which will please both the KS backers and the new retail backers who are currently picking up the game. This is going to hurt the game's popularity (and thus financial viability) long-term (in that the negative PR generated now will impact future sales).



I agree it shouldn't be exclusive but realistically people will be copying them in slightly reworded custom scenarios within a month.
 
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