gary rembo
United Kingdom
brighton
Alaska
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi all,
Quick short sharp review after a few plays and scenarios of the GW latest boxed game offering.

Components
Lovely sturdy box
What we have come to expect from GW.
Lovely embossed boards colourful manual and lots of fluff.
Gorgeous miniatures and oversized but thin card stock boring cards.
Fair quality dice

Gameplay.

Sorry GW seem to be continuing there bloodbowl style game designing technique of drop the ball,pick up the ball,drop the ball,pick up the ball.
What I mean is they bring out a half decent game then a lousy one.
Calth was pretty good as was tower,execution force not good neither was the other light arcade skirmish one they released (the name escapes me).

for me this game was very very boring.
Let me sum up gameplay.

Round starts with bad guys hurling chaos spells at you which involves turning over three cards each with big numbers on them.
If the chaos card ad up to more the the good guys they get to do their spell. This happens up to three times. There is little variation bar a few decisions on cards to make that are obvious most of the time. BORING.

next we MOVE
pretty straight forward stuff here.

Next we shoot or attack. This involves rolling a number of dice and comparing your attack dice to the defenders dice in good old fashioned risk style descending number order.
Every one of the attackers dice that beats a defender dice does one damage.
Tot up total damage and apply.
There a number of different weapon configs and a few special effects on weapons but that's it in a nut shell.
Rinse and repeat until you win or fall asleep.
Don't play this game while drinking a hot beverage because when you do fall asleep it will end up on your game and in your lap.

My gripes

Firstly when you assemble your figures your stuck with what you build even though there are variations on the sprue it would have been great to make the weapon arms push on to add more variaty.

Second there are not enough dice for some rolls you have to make and as the game relies on comparing dice rolled it gets tricky to remember what you rolled if you have to re roll a d6 multiple times (think trying to play risk with only 1 dice each.)

Third not enough damage markers.

Fourth and I'm not being nasty here but the rules seem to me to have been written on the back of a beer mat in A pub somewhere. And I'm sure the brief went something like this
"Here a pint and a pie here's the board and the bits make us a rule set ill be back in a half hour"

Conclusion

Come on GW you have produced some good games lately and have a good stable of old games to draw on so £90 (im aware you can get it cheaper if you look around but im quoting rrp) for this poor excuse of a game?.

I'm sure the boards and dice will come in handy for some other project and the figs as always are nice.

On a side not I am looking forward to getting my bloodbowl next week and I know this will be a great game form past editions. Also the price is more reasonable I presume because of less figures.

Anyway that's me THX for reading
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
badge
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
"I'm not being nasty here but the rules seem to me to have been written on the back of a beer mat in A pub somewhere"

Ha. It's the classic, "I don't mean to be rude, but..."

Personally, I think you're selling the game short, but never mind.

I did just want to mention a few things:

You say there aren't enough dice. As you attack with one unit at a time, and there is a maximum of four models in each unit, I don't see how you are running out of dice. Each side gets four D6, four D8, three D10s, and one D12. I can't think of any attack where you would need more.

Also, not seeing how you are running out of damage tokens. When your opponent attacks a damaged unit, you are forced to stack damage onto models that are already wounded, which will usually kill them off, freeing up the damage tokens. Furthermore, all remaining damage is removed from the board at the end of the round. I've never come close to running out of tokens (you do know the backs of the tokens represent two wounds, right?).

Anyway, thanks for your opinions.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Knepper
United States
Huntsville
Alabama
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jokerman wrote:
My gripes

Firstly when you assemble your figures your stuck with what you build even though there are variations on the sprue it would have been great to make the weapon arms push on to add more variaty.


Mini-magnets?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jokerman wrote:
Don't play this game while drinking a hot beverage because when you do fall asleep it will end up on your game and in your lap.

My friend proved you can spill a cold drink on the boards and they will survive. Don't try spilling on the cards.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
gary rembo
United Kingdom
brighton
Alaska
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi bud,
On point one there are instances when you roll 5 d6 with magic.
I know I could tax a dice from elsewhere god knows I have enough lol.
But I shouldn't have to at £90.00.

Second. Yes you rquite right I missed that. THX for the input.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
gary rembo
United Kingdom
brighton
Alaska
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Cool idea maybe GW should read this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
gary rembo
United Kingdom
brighton
Alaska
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Lol.
Yes we had a similar with space hulk. Lol
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cutthroat Cardboard (Barry)
Scotland
Edinburgh
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. I still haven't played the last two scenarios so haven't finalized my thoughts on the game yet. There are certainly areas that have caused me some concern, randomness, balance, and suitability of the combat system to model 30K/40K weapons, to name a few. Largely however I can't say I agree on your criticisms.

Jokerman wrote:
Gorgeous miniatures and oversized but thin card stock boring cards.


This is just one of those personal ones. The cards are plain but their size and quality make them feel good in hand. I absolutely understand however how this might not be everyone's take on the design.

Jokerman wrote:

Round starts with bad guys hurling chaos spells at you which involves turning over three cards each with big numbers on them.
If the chaos card ad up to more the the good guys they get to do their spell. This happens up to three times. There is little variation bar a few decisions on cards to make that are obvious most of the time. BORING.


This was one of my initial areas of concern but I've grown to really enjoy this phase. My initial fear was that there was no meaningful decision making and this can be the case if the Traitors only have one useful psychic ability. As soon as they have more than one useful ability and either priority or sequence are an issue then the phase becomes much more interesting. Both decks have a card that will end the phase and the Traitors two that will auto succeed but end the phase. Gageing whether you'll get a successful power off and which attempt your most likely to achieve it on becomes a little more interesting particularly as various units on the board subtly alter the odds of success in each scenario.

Jokerman wrote:

Next we shoot or attack. This involves rolling a number of dice and comparing your attack dice to the defenders dice in good old fashioned risk style descending number order.
Every one of the attackers dice that beats a defender dice does one damage.
Tot up total damage and apply.
There a number of different weapon configs and a few special effects on weapons but that's it in a nut shell.
Rinse and repeat until you win or fall asleep.
Don't play this game while drinking a hot beverage because when you do fall asleep it will end up on your game and in your lap.


You haven't touched upon what is probably the key aspect of the dice rolling system they have implemented which is that you score two hits on a successful attack that scores a 6 or higher. The whole combat system and it's attempt to model 30K/40K weapons and armour is built around this. A basic marine, if there is such a thing, attacks and defends with a d6 and takes two hits. Special/heavy weapons and armour roll from d8 through d12 dramatically altering the chances of rollin a 6+ and getting a critical hit and killing/saving a marine.

The odds are complicated in an interesting way by forcing all additional saves in an area beyond the number of models to be on a d6. So two terminators saving against four bolter shots save on 2d10 plus 2d6 against 4d6 rather than 4d10 vs 4d6. This has an impact on optimum squad construction and tactics.

In some ways the game reminds me of a more shooty Age of Sigmar. At its core it's about movement and denial of movement. The initiative and pinning rules work to hold units in place with chump blockers whilst heavy weapons squads pour in supporting fire to whittle down the combat effectiveness of the opposition.

I think one of it's big strengths, and potential weaknesses, that you didn't touch on is narrative. Each of the scenarios is very much set within the narrative described in the book and heavily models the situation. With the models and tiles this provides strong visual and gameplay support for the situation being portrayed. If there is a downside it is that this requires a lot of work to balance each scenario and I'm not sure they've got this quite right.

Whether all this adds up to a game that is good and people will like is open to debate and even more than Calth I have a feeling that Prospero will polarize opinion. With its georgous components, sweeping narrative, and quirky combat and psychic systems I can't say that's I've found it...boring.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
badge
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jokerman wrote:
Hi bud,
On point one there are instances when you roll 5 d6 with magic.
I know I could tax a dice from elsewhere god knows I have enough lol.
But I shouldn't have to at £90.00.

Second. Yes you rquite right I missed that. THX for the input.


You're going to have to help me out here, because I don't know of any powers that requires that many dice.

Raptora - Telekenetic Bombardment - three D8s
Athanaean - Cruel Illustion - one dice (type depending on target)
Corvidae - Precognitive Precision - up to four dice (depending on target)
Pavoni - Bio Storm - up to five attacks, each rolled separately with one D8
Pyrae - Infern - up to four D6

None of the other psychic powers require dice rolls, so I am assuming you mean Bio Storm. However, those attacks are each resolved separately, so you can do it with one D8.

If I'm missing something, please let me know, because I was impressed they had included exactly enough dice for every situation (unlike a company like FFG).
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ZombieMark wrote:
Jokerman wrote:
Don't play this game while drinking a hot beverage because when you do fall asleep it will end up on your game and in your lap.

My friend proved you can spill a cold drink on the boards and they will survive. Don't try spilling on the cards.


Played Scenario 3 today. Came down to the two last die rolls. I ended up with ONE SoS on the board, and nothing else. Enough for a win! A very finely balanced scenario. With all due respect, I'm having a hard time finding this game to be boring. The more we play, the more we like the game. I'm beginning to think this might be the GW game that gets the most play.

Oh, and the same friend spilled his hot tea this time. The boards withstood yet another assault.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
United States
Anchorage
Alaska
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ZombieMark wrote:
ZombieMark wrote:
Jokerman wrote:
Don't play this game while drinking a hot beverage because when you do fall asleep it will end up on your game and in your lap.

My friend proved you can spill a cold drink on the boards and they will survive. Don't try spilling on the cards.


Played Scenario 3 today. Came down to the two last die rolls. I ended up with ONE SoS on the board, and nothing else. Enough for a win! A very finely balanced scenario. With all due respect, I'm having a hard time finding this game to be boring. The more we play, the more we like the game. I'm beginning to think this might be the GW game that gets the most play.

Oh, and the same friend spilled his hot tea this time. The boards withstood yet another assault.


Christmas is coming, I suggest a sippy cup for their stocking stuffer?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Grumsh wrote:
Christmas is coming, I suggest a sippy cup for their stocking stuffer?

He leans another way. Maybe eight sippy cups for Hanukkah?

Speaking of sippy cups...one fine day at the zoo, my wife and I happened upon one of my casual friends. And, his wife whom we had not yet met. We exchanged greetings and introductions all around. They had their newborn, in a stroller. I was holding our 1 year-old. I leaned over to admire the new baby. My daughter dropped her half-full sippy cup, which bounced off the infant's forehead. That caused a lot of screaming from the baby, obviously. And, looks that should have killed from the wife/new mom we did not know. The new Dad recovered the sippy cup from the stroller. He was at a complete loss as to what to say or do. Just standing there, sheepishly holding the offending sippy cup.

The only thing I could think to say was, "Would you like to hit our kid in the head with it, too?" That friendship never really recovered from The Sippy Cup Incident.

I guess what I am saying is, sippy cups aren't the panacea most folks think they are.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cutthroat Cardboard (Barry)
Scotland
Edinburgh
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ZombieMark wrote:
Played Scenario 3 today. Came down to the two last die rolls. I ended up with ONE SoS on the board, and nothing else. Enough for a win! A very finely balanced scenario. With all due respect, I'm having a hard time finding this game to be boring. The more we play, the more we like the game. I'm beginning to think this might be the GW game that gets the most play.


I liked scenario 3. It can swing a bit if the Traitors roll some bad dice early as each time they lose a unit its a big dent in their combat power. If however they draw a decent random power and the winds of the warp blow kindly they can feel pretty epic. The special scenario rules for their Titan also add a nice new tactical that combos well with some powers.

The base system slightly abstract in its modeling of the 40K world but it's so simple and takes scenario chrome well. You could see this one working for a wide range of 40K type games and they'd still be easy to pull out the box and play after months of down time.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I like the little things. A flamer rolls a D6 for each model in the target zone. A Heavy flamer subtly ups the game and rolls a D8 for each model in the target zone.

Oh, my God Machine! Getting shot at by a Warlord Titan each turn was a novel experience.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
United States
Anchorage
Alaska
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ZombieMark wrote:
Grumsh wrote:
Christmas is coming, I suggest a sippy cup for their stocking stuffer?

He leans another way. Maybe eight sippy cups for Hanukkah?

Speaking of sippy cups...one fine day at the zoo, my wife and I happened upon one of my casual friends. And, his wife whom we had not yet met. We exchanged greetings and introductions all around. They had their newborn, in a stroller. I was holding our 1 year-old. I leaned over to admire the new baby. My daughter dropped her half-full sippy cup, which bounced off the infant's forehead. That caused a lot of screaming from the baby, obviously. And, looks that should have killed from the wife/new mom we did not know. The new Dad recovered the sippy cup from the stroller. He was at a complete loss as to what to say or do. Just standing there, sheepishly holding the offending sippy cup.

The only thing I could think to say was, "Would you like to hit our kid in the head with it, too?" That friendship never really recovered from The Sippy Cup Incident.

I guess what I am saying is, sippy cups aren't the panacea most folks think they are.


LOL wow I almost shot tea out of my nose on that one!

I think she was subtly telling you she didn't want any more competition!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's been fifteen years, and she'd probably do it again!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Claudio Hornblower
Italy
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ZombieMark wrote:
Grumsh wrote:
Christmas is coming, I suggest a sippy cup for their stocking stuffer?

He leans another way. Maybe eight sippy cups for Hanukkah?

Speaking of sippy cups...one fine day at the zoo, my wife and I happened upon one of my casual friends. And, his wife whom we had not yet met. We exchanged greetings and introductions all around. They had their newborn, in a stroller. I was holding our 1 year-old. I leaned over to admire the new baby. My daughter dropped her half-full sippy cup, which bounced off the infant's forehead. That caused a lot of screaming from the baby, obviously. And, looks that should have killed from the wife/new mom we did not know. The new Dad recovered the sippy cup from the stroller. He was at a complete loss as to what to say or do. Just standing there, sheepishly holding the offending sippy cup.

The only thing I could think to say was, "Would you like to hit our kid in the head with it, too?" That friendship never really recovered from The Sippy Cup Incident.

I guess what I am saying is, sippy cups aren't the panacea most folks think they are.

That's what I love about BGG, honestly. The minute you're reading some back-n-forth reviews/impressions about Prospero; then real life suddenly bursts into, you're seeing the scene like you was there, really, thinking "what the hell? this dude rocks".
That's almost Hemingway (or Friends - the sitcom). Love it. Made my day.

Back on topic: my fine gents, it's my understanding that this game may well be worth it after all. So I'm itchy on a budget. Where to put the always-hard-earned cash?

1. Burning of Prospero. Psychic. More models. Eventually upgradeable with new Rubric Marines etc.

2. Betrayal at Calth. 2-points-impulses and special events. One biggie dreadnought (lackadaisical pose). Additional missions available right now.

3. Get the Space Hulk reprint! (But I already own the 1st edition - I know, another thing entirely)

I'm on the verge of insanity (= blind pick) shake
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
United States
Anchorage
Alaska
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Space Hulk > Calth > Prospero - BUT since you already own a version of Space Hulk I would get Calth first!

Not that Prospero is bad it is just that Calth is that good!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mythologem wrote:
So I'm itchy on a budget. Where to put the always-hard-earned cash?

Both Calth and Prospero are available without minis. Pretty cheap. Blank canvases, really. Let's figure out how to acquire BOTH games with the least cost. Without weird proxies. With WYSIWYG. Starting from scratch. ALL prices using current "Buy it Now" on eBay.

We could buy most necessary squads off eBay, individually. To outfit Prospero would be:

Sisters of Silence ($35)
Adeptus Custodes ($40)
Tac Squads x3 ($25 x 3)
Terminators ($30)
3 Characters ($20)
Total $200

It's a lot cheaper to just buy Prospero ($125).

BUT, if we buy Prospero, we are more than half way to Calth. And, we need those dang Sisters and Custodes. Advantage Prospero.

So, we simply buy Calth without minis ($20).

Consider, both games have three Tactical Marine squads (1 loyal, 2 traitor). I say paint one Space Wolves and 2 Thousand Sons. They work for BOTH games.

Because, the two Characters from Prospero (One Space Wolf, the other Thousand Son) could also stand in for the two characters in Calth. OK, not exactly WYSIWYG, but darn close.

Both games have a terminator squad. Yup, one each, but on opposite sides. We could buy a second off eBay ($25). Or, even paint the one from Prospero in a third Chapter's colors, and let them switch hit. ALL the Traitor legions started out as good guys. Paint them up as Night Lords. So, in Calth the Night Lords Terminators are loyal allies with the Space Wolves. In Prospero, they are allies with the Thousand Sons. Oh, those rascals! Who's gonna know, right?

Finally, Calth calls for a Dreadnought. A Chaos Hellbrute Dreadnought is dirt cheap on eBay ($10). No, it's not exact, but it's very close (enough).

That's Prospero + Calth + Hellbrute = $155.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Claudio Hornblower
Italy
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Amazing tips, thank you.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Brinkman

Nebraska
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Mythologem wrote:


1. Burning of Prospero. Psychic. More models. Eventually upgradeable with new Rubric Marines etc.



To be correct to the timeline, the Rubric marines are a 40k era unit. At the time of the Burning of Prospero, Ahriman had not yet attempted the Rubric ritual.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.