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Subject: Unequal turns rss

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Dvonn Yinsh
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Just played our first 2 games tonight. Everyone in the group really enjoyed it and we all thought GWT is a very good game.

My only dislike was unequal turns. In our second game, player 3 ended the game. So therefore player #1 and #2 ended up with 1 more action than players 3 and 4. This seems rather big to me. And the compensation of an extra bit of start money doesn't balance missing an action.

What are your experiences and opinions on this?

 
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Andy Powell
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sHifnal
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Played 3 games with 4 players and I have found that players are planning their last few turns with precision trying to take as much advantage as possible on turn end.
So not an issue, just another aspect of the game that takes great thought and planning.
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Jonathan Er
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candoo wrote:
Just played our first 2 games tonight. Everyone in the group really enjoyed it and we all thought GWT is a very good game.

My only dislike was unequal turns. In our second game, player 3 ended the game. So therefore player #1 and #2 ended up with 1 more action than players 3 and 4. This seems rather big to me. And the compensation of an extra bit of start money doesn't balance missing an action.

What are your experiences and opinions on this?



I find an early influx of money is a huge advantage for later players
Money is just super tight in the early stages of the game
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Mathue Faulkner
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chubber911 wrote:
Starting with that extra money maybe means your first round is shorter and thus (even though you're 4th player), you become first in round order because you get to Kansas City first.

I'm not sure I follow this part. Or maybe you're implying that the lower income players may take a couple of extra stops along the way? I guess I can see that, but it's certainly not always the case and player strategy has a much larger effect on who hits Kansas City first.
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LCG 74160
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IMHO, the $1 difference (in a 2-player game) does not make much difference.

The content of your first hand is much more important. With the suitable cow in hand, you can easily get $2...
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Robert
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lcg74160 wrote:
IMHO, the $1 difference (in a 2-player game) does not make much difference.

The content of your first hand is much more important. With the suitable cow in hand, you can easily get $2...
The nice thing is: you can check you hand, and then pick the starting building accordingly.

herd of 6: maybe deliver right away, i.e. start on whatever building happens to be on neutral building spots E/F/G
herd of 7: start on neutral building C to get a certificate to make a delivery of 8
herd with two green cows: start on neutral building B (or before) to build
herd with two white cows: start on neutral building A (or before) to buy a worker
herd with two black cows: start on neutral building E (or before) to buy cattle
herd with two 1-cows: start on building F (or before) to get rid of them
etc.
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LCG 74160
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DocCool wrote:
The nice thing is: you can check you hand, and then pick the starting building accordingly.


Or not...

What if the best building according to your hand is the one just before Kansas City? Will you start there anyway with the risk of making a poor first delivery to Kansas City?
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Lionel Graveleau
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the player on my last 4 player game who finished the game had the same feeling, so we counted VP on his last turn : Delivering Kansas City earn him 13 PV thanks to City delivering + money (5$=1VP) + bonus ending (2 VP) . Nobody next him earn as much (the more was 7 VP).
Kansas City is a great source of VP. Ending before other player can do it is an advantage.

Finishing the game mean mastering the timing, and in this game timing is very important. I prefer finishing the game, rather than beeing in a doubt (can i take an objective ? Can i spend all my money in buying cow ? Do i have enough time to advance my train ? to deliver Kansas City ?)

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Robert
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lcg74160 wrote:
DocCool wrote:
The nice thing is: you can check you hand, and then pick the starting building accordingly.


Or not...

What if the best building according to your hand is the one just before Kansas City? Will you start there anyway with the risk of making a poor first delivery to Kansas City?
Trivial answer: if it's the best building, then by definition it's best to start there.
Slightly less smart-alecky answer: note the "(or before)" in my proposed starting buildings - my point is that your start position should take your four starting cards into account. Sooner or later you may have to make a delivery to Topeka (herd value >= 1) or Wichita (herd value >= 4) anyway, and getting rid of a white disk right away may be worth an early delivery by its own right.
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Mathue Faulkner
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DocCool wrote:
lcg74160 wrote:
DocCool wrote:
The nice thing is: you can check you hand, and then pick the starting building accordingly.


Or not...

What if the best building according to your hand is the one just before Kansas City? Will you start there anyway with the risk of making a poor first delivery to Kansas City?
Trivial answer: if it's the best building, then by definition it's best to start there.
Slightly less smart-alecky answer: note the "(or before)" in my proposed starting buildings - my point is that your start position should take your four starting cards into account. Sooner or later you may have to make a delivery to Topeka (herd value >= 1) or Wichita (herd value >= 4) anyway, and getting rid of a white disk right away may be worth an early delivery by its own right.

Or even Kansas City.

During my last game, I took a huge risk. I started in the last neutral building, then proceeded to deliver the next turn. I had enough to deliver to Colorado Springs, but I chose to delivery to Kansas City instead. This gave me enough money to buy 2 Cowboys and 2 Cows, which were the first two neutral buildings nearest to the start. I think I also built the "buy Cattle" personal building, and then picked up a West Highland all before my next delivery, but I'm less certain on all of that. Regardless, I ended up winning the game. Maybe I would've won anyway, but it seemed like an interesting experiment that turned out well...

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Mathue Faulkner
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ocelau wrote:
the player on my last 4 player game who finished the game had the same feeling, so we counted VP on his last turn : Delivering Kansas City earn him 13 PV thanks to City delivering + money (5$=1VP) + bonus ending (2 VP) . Nobody next him earn as much (the more was 7 VP).
Kansas City is a great source of VP. Ending before other player can do it is an advantage.

Finishing the game mean mastering the timing, and in this game timing is very important. I prefer finishing the game, rather than beeing in a doubt (can i take an objective ? Can i spend all my money in buying cow ? Do i have enough time to advance my train ? to deliver Kansas City ?)


Yes, the timing by the players is the most important. We've played 4 2p games, and we've actually both delivered on our final turns every game since we're watching each other so closely at the end. The "unequal turns" is trivial in comparison to player's skill in regards to timing.
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