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Pax Renaissance» Forums » Rules

Subject: Voting and Republics rss

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Christopher
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Can a republic vote to return to it's king side? If yes, this is a regime change and can result in concession placement?

Can a kingdom op be activated on the same action round it is flipped (ie kingdom campaigns then is flipped by a vote or kingdom is flipped I republic and the republic ops are used)?
 
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Rich James
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You can't use more than one op from a given card in your turn.

I'll tentatively affirm that you can vote to return to the king side. I don't have the rules in front of me to confirm at the moment.
 
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Mick Mickelsen
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The rules are not explicit on this point.

It first says use a vote op to conduct regime change, which would include voting to turn a republic into a monarchy.

However, the the rules also say one can use a vote to turn their own monarchy into a republic, but omits stating that one could also turn their republic into a monarchy. One might want to do this after first playing for a renaissance victory, but then changing courses and seeking an imperial victory. It seems significant that the possibility of voting to change one's own republic into a monarchy is omitted.

Certainly one who is pursuing an imperial victory might want to vote to change a republic in another player's tableau into a monarchy, and thus acquire it in their own tableau.

Theme-wise it seems a bit odd using the vote action to turn a republic into a monarchy.

Hopefully, Phil or Matt will clarify this.
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Christopher
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... And with each change a player could place a concession?
 
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Rich James
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Yes, the Regime Change glossary entry specifies that.
 
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Christopher
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arjisme wrote:
You can't use more than one op from a given card in your turn.

I'll tentatively affirm that you can vote to return to the king side. I don't have the rules in front of me to confirm at the moment.


I mean a situation like this: card y is used to change kingdom x to a republic; kingdom x uses vote ability to change itself back into empire. Player gets two concessions for two regime changes.

Or, kingdom z successfully campaigns in kingdom p. then card x allows for a vote in kingdom z (or p). voila, two concessions.

Are both of these scenarios valid plays?
 
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Rich James
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I think both are valid scenarios. I agree with Mick that the fact the rules specifically call out the switch to Republic leads to some doubt about the validity of voting back to a kingship, but I think the rules support the flip back to the king side in a vote (or any regime change you can cause to an empire in your own tableau.). And as long as a card has not been used to perform an op, that card can be used one time to perform whatever op it shows as available.

Edit: and see this thread which is seeking confirmation that you can perform ops on cards added to your tableau during your current turn.
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Polybe
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mickmick wrote:

Theme-wise it seems a bit odd using the vote action to turn a republic into a monarchy.


Well i am not sure that a vote to turn a monarchy into a republic (even an oligarchy like Venezia or Firenze)is any better historically.

Which king kindly organized an election, for bankers only, to surrender his crown to a parlement or to another king! There might be an example in Poland-Lituania, elective kingdom by noblemen not bankers?).
I understand the interest for the game but the "vote" op is really weak theme-wise.
 
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Rich James
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I don't think it is weak theme-wise. There are a lot of implied events going on to effect that vote, including deposing the king. No reason to assume the king is sponsoring the vote!
 
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Kyrill Melai
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Regime Change wrote:
Own Empire. Except in campaigns (see next bullet), if the Empire is in your own Tableau, flip it to its other side. Discard any Queens and Vassals but retain all Tokens. If it was a Vassal, move it to your outermost Tableau position as a Republic, rightmost or leftmost depending on if it is east or west. Successfully attacking your own Empire is called a strawman regime change, and is the only way to create Republics.


Seems pretty conclusive that a regime change in your own table causes a flip i.e. a vote on a Republic will turn it in a Kingdom. There is no choice either onwhich side to use.

 
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Joshua Lobkowicz
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A regime change when the card is changing tableaus always results in a monarchy in the new tableau though, correct?
 
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Jose Cunha
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As far as i know,yes!
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