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Subject: What other games is this game like? rss

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Tony
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I had the opportunity to get a Black Friday pledge, so decided take a chance even though I've not played the game. Didn't seem like a bad idea since (1) it is highly ranking on BGG, (2) the community seems very excited about the game, and (3) how quickly the KS is advancing. Plus, I figured I could always cancel my pledge, and I didn't want to miss the chance to save $50.

I'm wondering if folks could give me their thoughts about what other games KD is like. For example, is it anything like Shadows of Brimstone (which I like quite a bit)? Is it similar to any other games?

I began watching some game play videos, but they were over 1 hour long. I'll continue to look for shorter videos, but thought I'd ask here to help things along and in case anyone else was wondering.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

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sam newman

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It isnt really like any other game
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Michael Pflug
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This is really hard to compare.

It has a lot of storytelling for a boardgame. Some people say it's a lot like an RPG. It also has tactical boss fights, and you build your own civilization over a long campaign.


https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1679203/kingdom-death-m...

There is a link to a game play video here. Check it out, and you see, what the game is about.
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sam newman

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El_Tonio wrote:
I had the opportunity to get a Black Friday pledge, so decided take a chance even though I've not played the game. Didn't seem like a bad idea since (1) it is highly ranking on BGG, (2) the community seems very excited about the game, and (3) how quickly the KS is advancing. Plus, I figured I could always cancel my pledge, and I didn't want to miss the chance to save $50.

I'm wondering if folks could give me their thoughts about what other games KD is like. For example, is it anything like Shadows of Brimstone (which I like quite a bit)? Is it similar to any other games?

I began watching some game play videos, but they were over 1 hour long. I'll continue to look for shorter videos, but thought I'd ask here to help things along and in case anyone else was wondering.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!



Ok i will give you a better answer simply by going through what KDM is and then you can makeup your own mind.

KDM starts off with a bunch of survviors waking up in an unknown place with no memory and an inability to even speak.

Suddenly a lion attacks and starts ripping them to pieces.

The prologue begins, 4 survivors must fight for their lives and kill the white lion.

The white lion is a huntable monster, it always goes first. The AI deck is made up of 4 main types of AI, Basic, Advanced, Special and Legendary. At the start of the encounter X number of each are drawn and shuffled together dependant on the Monster level. The Special AI cards work differently in that they remain in play and active always. On the monsters turn you draw and resolve the AI, this will either be an attack and or move of some kind. Possibly it might be a mood. Mood cards come into play and remain in play until a trigger occurs.

Combat is resolved using d10 dice. A 1 is always a failure and the 10 has been replaced with a lantern symbol, a lantern is always a hit. But it is also a critical hit or a critical wound.

Each creature has a Hit Location deck, whenever you wound a creature you draw a hit location and resolve it. Their can be a punishment for wounding or failing to wound that location.

Once the monster is killed you will gain resources and endevours. Resources are spent in order to craft gear and improve your settlement, endevours are spent in order to Innovate to for survivors to perform certain actions during the settlement phase.

After you kill a monster the settlement phase begins. You may construct new locations which will give you access to new crafatable items, you can spend resources on crafting weapons and armor for your survivors. You can spend endevours to innovate. Innovations grant abilities to survivors and or your settlement. You might spend an endevour to perform intimacy, which is how you gain more population through child birth.

At the start of the settlement phase new events occur, these events come in 2 types. Settlement events which are random events and story events which are timeline events that obvioujsly progress the story.
Sometimes these events unlock new huntable creatures, new items or affect your survivors in some way even killing them.

Throughout the game you will be recording and altering your survivor sheets, adjusting your settlement sheets and basically keeping track of your progress. Survivors will go from being fairly disposable to becoming amazing warriors. In KDM you only ever use 4 survivors at a time but your settlement could have any number of survivors living there who can be used as one of those 4.

After the settlement phase the hunt begins. Cards are placed along a hunt track and the survivors turn them over in order and resolve the events that occur. These events can change the setup of the actual encounter and or have negative/ positive effects and bonuses on the survivors for when they have the encounter iwth the creature being hunted.

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Claude Hemberger
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What about something like the xcom series on computer?
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Thomas Patrick
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El_Tonio wrote:
I had the opportunity to get a Black Friday pledge, so decided take a chance even though I've not played the game. Didn't seem like a bad idea since (1) it is highly ranking on BGG, (2) the community seems very excited about the game, and (3) how quickly the KS is advancing. Plus, I figured I could always cancel my pledge, and I didn't want to miss the chance to save $50.

I'm wondering if folks could give me their thoughts about what other games KD is like. For example, is it anything like Shadows of Brimstone (which I like quite a bit)? Is it similar to any other games?

I began watching some game play videos, but they were over 1 hour long. I'll continue to look for shorter videos, but thought I'd ask here to help things along and in case anyone else was wondering.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!


It's a civ builder, not a dungeon crawl like Shadows of Brimstone. The only constant is your settlement. Your characters will suffer horribly before they die. At least they won't die alone, though, since their friends will be dying with them.

You also only fight one creature at a time, but the AI deck controlling the creature keeps things interesting.

I see you live in Tempe. I live in Phoenix. I can tentatively offer to give you a trial run using my copy and maybe go through the first lantern year or two, but with the time of the year it is, I might not be able to squeeze out the time before the campaign ends. If you're interested, PM me.
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Orion Free
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You mentioned liking Shadows of Brimstone, we enjoyed Shadows of Brimstone quite a lot, and still do, but I managed to snag a copy of Kingdom Death.

Wow, it was like it took all of the parts I felt were missing from all of the other dungeon crawl and rpg games I had played, and tossed them together.

There is a goal for the campaign (not just each mission!), a storyline, more lore, the growing of your town, with important decisions as you go along to grow your settlement into something that can try to survive in the darkness. Each individual character has almost an equivalent of a d&d charsheet, as well as the settlement itself.

Shadows of Brimstone is like an rpg-lite compared to KDM. The fights in Kingdom Death are way crazier and more nuanced, the gear isn't quite as random, but has to be built, and choices have to be made about which gear to build and whether to use resources to advance the town. The gear is interesting, and hugely varied, the fights are much more interesting, and each enemy has a different feel and approach.

You'll see people talking about whether or not KDM has meaningful decisions, and a lot of the time if they are talking about during the fight/showdown they are missing the points - it's difficult to describe to people what the game is, because the meaningful decisions are at the macro level, rather than at a tactical micro level. Yes survivors die a lot, and randomly, but there were decisions that you made during the course of the campaign that got you to that point, that would determine how hard those losses affect you and your settlement. (Your first campaign, this will be a lot.)

Yes in Shadows of Brimstone you level up and progress, but because of the scaling system, you just get to do more cool stuff against more and bigger baddies.
Kingdom Death is almost more of a Legacy Game, where you make overarching decisions that greatly affect how the rest of the game plays out.
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Jonathan Star
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Hijacking topic with quick question - there are four survivors. In my campaign, could I play solo and then when I have company, we can continue the campaign and they'll take over some survivors? Is that how it works?
 
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David Ainsworth
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You can definitely play that way, yeah. You 'play' as the settlement, more than the survivors. The quicker you forget about the survivors the better really because they will die, and die, and die. But the settlement goes on.
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Peter Bowie
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It's like Monster Hunter with the theme of Dark Souls, mixed with Civilization. Hunt monsters in highly variable and tactical battles, get resources to exchange for weapons/armor, cry as your beastly team of survivors dies in a brutal onslaught, bask in new innovations that give your survivors all sorts of pre-battle bonuses.

Compared to most storytelling games I've played, or tabletop RPGs I've seen, rather than a narrative that provides you a strict linear progression in story, it's a basic framework that provides the world building and events, but ultimately lets you, the player, push along the narrative.
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Have you ever played a pen and paper RPG? Good, good. Now - take out the DM, and the headaches he gets, the frustration he experiences, the hours of suffering he puts in to making a campaign only to see his "big boss" murdered by the min-maxer who spends just as much time and effort into figuring out the probabilities of doing maximum damage with any given move set.

This game is the RPG I always wanted from the last fifteen years of my life. Dark, thematic, genuinely dangerous to the characters without the drama bullshit that killing a player character brings with it in the RPG community.

The first thing I tell any RPG players sitting down to this game is to start thinking about their survivor as a meat-puppet. Some are cooler than others, but they are meat.

And the stories that meat can produce! Whole sagas of story can be written out as a sketch on the hunt track! A hunting party can start out and take withering punishment, and though it seems rather bare compared to the story events in the book - with a little bit of clever reading you can take a simple line and act it out into a grand tale of encounters and trials.

And that's just the hunt! Probably the least fleshy part of the game.

Finding games to compare this to is nearly impossible. We literally have to combine three to four to five different games and genres together just to describe it.

And we usually fail to do that adequately enough.
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John Prewitt
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gorkel wrote:
It isnt really like any other game


I personally think shadows of brimstone is very similar. I personally think it's better as well, but the quality of the minis sucks in SoB. KDM's are world class.
 
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Mike B.
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So, how does it play? I have seen there are only about a handful of monster minis. Yet you play over what, 25 years?

Is it always: fight 1 monster, go back and upgrade, fight the next monster that is tougher, go back and upgrade... or do you fight other stuff that doesn't have a mini? Where and how does the story get in?
 
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John Prewitt
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Likemike wrote:
So, how does it play? I have seen there are only about a handful of monster minis. Yet you play over what, 25 years?

Is it always: fight 1 monster, go back and upgrade, fight the next monster that is tougher, go back and upgrade... or do you fight other stuff that doesn't have a mini? Where and how does the story get in?


There's 3-4 versions of each monster. Each time you fight a monster it will play differently. The replay value of the game is in the gear you choose to use and the AI deck of the monster that is always different. You always fight the "Monsters" which are the boss minis. There is not quite a story IMO but there is a narrative. Think Dark Souls story telling. There's a "story" event before every "year" but yes to beat the game it'll take you ~25 fights. There's 7 monsters in the core box and 11 expansions, so you can mix match however you want. Honestly it's worth buying/trying it out, even if you sell it if you don't like it as you'll make your money back.
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Christoph M.
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Likemike wrote:
Is it always: fight 1 monster, go back and upgrade, fight the next monster that is tougher, go back and upgrade...


That's exactly what I'm asking myself after watching the TheBeastsOfWar Playthrough vids.
Looks like a tactical miniatures game to me, and like most of the fun comes from the civ building part. Not really a dungeon crawler where you have to explore a dungeon, search mysterious locations etc, but more like a coop skirmish Warhammer. Or am I wrong?
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John Prewitt
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Chris Coyote wrote:
Likemike wrote:
Is it always: fight 1 monster, go back and upgrade, fight the next monster that is tougher, go back and upgrade...


That's exactly what I'm asking myself after watching the TheBeastsOfWar Playthrough vids.
Looks like a tactical miniatures game to me, and like most of the fun comes from the civ building part. Not really a dungeon crawler where you have to explore a dungeon, search mysterious locations etc, but more like a coop skirmish Warhammer. Or am I wrong?


It is literally not a dungeon crawler at all. There are 100 events that you sometimes have to deal with/search when you go on a hunt though. Sometimes you'll have to face 5-6 of these randomized events before you find your quarry. Sometimes you'll be "searching these mysterious locations" but they aren't physical.
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Mike B.
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So it's fight a boss, get back and upgrade to fight a bigger boss - repeat? Sounds more like an arena style game, than a narrative adventure. I am not trying to be negative, the game looks amazing and I love that it is described as a mix between tactical combat, Civ building and RPG upgrades and story, but it sounds so shallow when described as my first sentence...
 
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John Prewitt
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Likemike wrote:
So it's fight a boss, get back and upgrade to fight a bigger boss - repeat? Sounds more like an arena style game, than a narrative adventure. I am not trying to be negative, the game looks amazing and I love that it is described as a mix between tactical combat, Civ building and RPG upgrades and story, but it sounds so shallow when described as my first sentence...


It's not shallow at all. The rule/event book is almost 300 pages. It has more depth than any game I've ever played. You'll make decisions your 2nd year that affect you in your 25th. The "get back and upgrade" is a part of the game that takes as long as the monster fights. You draw story events, you read story events (and make meaningful decisions in both) and then you have to HUNT the monster (which can go horribly wrong, and more story/narrative), then you fight the monster. It's Settlement -> Hunt -> Fight, rinse n' repeat, with story events in each section.
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Mike B.
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Yeah, I know it is not shallow... my question is: is the meat of the game just the tactical combat against one enemy, or is there really meat behind the civ building and story elements as well?

I love building and upgrading a base, I love developing characters and I love when I feel like I am playing an engaging story. Just really deep combat would probably not be enough for me to take the plunge and spend 200 bucks on a game, where I also have to assemble the minis...

Edit: since I just read your edit: hunt and fight is not the same? What is hunt?
 
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John Prewitt
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Likemike wrote:
Yeah, I know it is not shallow... my question is: is the meat of the game just the tactical combat against one enemy, or is there really meat behind the civ building and story elements as well?

I love building and upgrading a base, I love developing characters and I love when I feel like I am playing an engaging story. Just really deep combat would probably not be enough for me to take the plunge and spend 200 bucks on a game, where I also have to assemble the minis...

Edit: since I just read your edit: hunt and fight is not the same? What is hunt?


Like I said the civ-building part takes as much as the fights sometimes.

The settlement phase has ~9 parts to it (I'm going off memory). You have to upgrade your 4 survivors, of which you might have 4-5 "events" happen as certain upgrades can trigger story events/milestones in that characters life, you have to draw a settlement event which stuff happens to your settlement, you'll have to read a story event in which other stuff happens, you'll have to spent endeavor's to upgrade. The game IMO is 50% settlement, 40% fight, 10% hunt.

The hunt phase I briefly described in my last post. You have to spend X amount of turns "hunting" your quarry (on a d100 chart) that can really throw a wrench in your gears, or make it easier, or make you fight a different monster completely.

If I were you I wouldn't think twice about spending $250 on this game. You'll love it if you like the art and creating a civilization.
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Mike B.
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Yeah, you are selling me more on this with your elaboration. I am thinking twice because it is a lot of money and frankly, with two little kids I don't have that much time to play a game like this anyway. I have never payed more than 150 bucks on a game, and that was with expansions...

But this game just looks so incredible - and it sound incredible. I will watch some gameplay vids and decide then. If I get it and don't like it, it seems like the resale value is pretty good as well...
 
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John Paul Messerly
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The hunt is the process of tracking down the prey. You pick your prey and then the game shows you how to set up the hunt track. As you hunt you move closer the the creature encountering events (specific to the monster and generic events). Some events just happen and others give you interesting choices but either way it means your state of mind and the exact setting of the fight will be different each time...

Does the creature take you on a long drawn out chase tiring you and wounding you along the way, does he ambush you early, does one of your hunters get severely wounded by a natural hazard, do you find and a powerful item to make the hunt easier. The hunt is another big part of the experiences that will define each character.

The actual fight is called the showdown and the board setup (terrain) gets defined by the monster, hunt events, or random draw of terrain cards.

...

Describing how KD plays never really sells how awesome it is. Every choice you make unlocks new options and outcomes that are usually hidden at the time but later you start to see how they fit together and how your destruction is the result of your own choices rather than just random luck- and yes the game will destroy you.
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David Ainsworth
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79strat wrote:

I personally think shadows of brimstone is very similar. I personally think it's better as well, but the quality of the minis sucks in SoB. KDM's are world class.


I've kickstarted both of these games, all in on both of them, have played them both quite a lot.

What makes you say SoB is a better game than KDM? Legitimately curious.
 
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John Prewitt
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Likemike wrote:
Yeah, you are selling me more on this with your elaboration. I am thinking twice because it is a lot of money and frankly, with two little kids I don't have that much time to play a game like this anyway. I have never payed more than 150 bucks on a game, and that was with expansions...

But this game just looks so incredible - and it sound incredible. I will watch some gameplay vids and decide then. If I get it and don't like it, it seems like the resale value is pretty good as well...


I've never spent more than $100 on a game besides this, and I'm at $2000 now.
 
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CletusVanDamme wrote:
79strat wrote:

I personally think shadows of brimstone is very similar. I personally think it's better as well, but the quality of the minis sucks in SoB. KDM's are world class.


I've kickstarted both of these games, all in on both of them, have played them both quite a lot.

What makes you say SoB is a better game than KDM? Legitimately curious.


By better I meant funner. I like that you can actually play a character and not die by having your testicles ripped off on their first hunt, and I prefer the settlement stage. I like how the map changes. I wish Poots would release a full expansion that alters the board or something with mini-boards.
 
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