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Ticket to Ride: Rails & Sails» Forums » Rules

Subject: Exchange Pieces: inconsistent rules rss

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Rene Raps
Netherlands
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On page 3 the rule books say:
Setting up World:
Each player receives 25 trains and 50 ships, chooses tickets, and then decides to keep 60 pieces in his supply.
The extra pieces are returned to the box.
There is no way for any player to have more than either 25 trains or 50 ships on this map.

Setting up Great Lakes:
Each player receives 33 trains and 32 ships, chooses tickets, and then decides to keep 50 pieces in his supply.
The extra pieces are returned to the box.
There is no way for any player to have more than either 33 trains or 32 ships on this map.

On page 7/6 (World/Great Lakes) the rule books say:
A player can exchange pieces as many times during the game as he wants, but only if he has pieces of the desired type still in the box.

So which rule is right?
Can I get more than 25 trains when playing World?
Can I get more than 32 ships when playing Great Lakes?

If not, then the rules should say someting like:
Setting up:
Each player received x trains and y ships. The remaining pieces are returned to the box.
After choosing tickets the player decides to keep z pieces. The surplus is placed in a general supply.
Exchange pieces:
A player can exchange pieces as many times during the game as he wants, but only if he has pieces of the desired type still in the general supply.

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Chris Schumann
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I've not read all the rules, but just going from your quotes, those rules are consistent.

That is, on the Great Lakes side, your supply is 25 trains and 50 ships, and you get to select 60 of those pieces. The remaining 15 go back into the box, and you can exchange your selected pieces with those you put back in the box, and you can never have more than 25 trains or 50 ships. Any other trains and ships are not available to you at all, as I read it.

Similarly with the world map.
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Eric Amick
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Ronnay wrote:
On page 3 the rule books say:
Setting up World:
Each player receives 25 trains and 50 ships, chooses tickets, and then decides to keep 60 pieces in his supply.
The extra pieces are returned to the box.
There is no way for any player to have more than either 25 trains or 50 ships on this map.

Setting up Great Lakes:
Each player receives 33 trains and 32 ships, chooses tickets, and then decides to keep 50 pieces in his supply.
The extra pieces are returned to the box.
There is no way for any player to have more than either 33 trains or 32 ships on this map.

On page 7/6 (World/Great Lakes) the rule books say:
A player can exchange pieces as many times during the game as he wants, but only if he has pieces of the desired type still in the box.

So which rule is right?
Can I get more than 25 trains when playing World?
Can I get more than 32 ships when playing Great Lakes?

If not, then the rules should say someting like:
Setting up:
Each player received x trains and y ships. The remaining pieces are returned to the box.
After choosing tickets the player decides to keep z pieces. The surplus is placed in a general supply.
Exchange pieces:
A player can exchange pieces as many times during the game as he wants, but only if he has pieces of the desired type still in the general supply.



Your revised rules are what they intended. What complicates things is that the two boards have different maximum numbers of trains and ships, and they obviously have to supply enough pieces to cover both. The pieces in excess of the starting numbers specified in the rules are put away and are out of play permanently.

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Rene Raps
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Whizkid wrote:
I've not read all the rules, but just going from your quotes, those rules are consistent.

That is, on the Great Lakes side, your supply is 25 trains and 50 ships, and you get to select 60 of those pieces. The remaining 15 go back into the box, and you can exchange your selected pieces with those you put back in the box, and you can never have more than 25 trains or 50 ships. Any other trains and ships are not available to you at all, as I read it.

Similarly with the world map.

Well, why do you try to answer questions if you haven't read the rules?

On the Great Lakes side you receive 33 trains (not 25) and 32 ships (not 50), as I stated before.

So on the World side you receive 75 pieces and keep 60. When you put the 15 remaining pieces in the box, then there are 23 pieces of your color in the box: 15 returning after choosing tickets and 8 trains already in the box.
There are 33 trains in each player color and you receive 25.

Then you can exchange pieces until there are no more trains in the box (see page 7). Changing over and over results in 33 trains and 27 ships in your possession and 23 ships in the box.

Now you have 33 trains. However the rules on page 3 say you can't have more than 25.
Now do you see my point?

I'm sorry if you feel insulted.

 
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Chris Schumann
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Ronnay wrote:
Whizkid wrote:
I've not read all the rules, but just going from your quotes, those rules are consistent.

That is, on the Great Lakes side, your supply is 25 trains and 50 ships, and you get to select 60 of those pieces. The remaining 15 go back into the box, and you can exchange your selected pieces with those you put back in the box, and you can never have more than 25 trains or 50 ships. Any other trains and ships are not available to you at all, as I read it.

Similarly with the world map.

Well, why do you try to answer questions if you haven't read the rules?

On the Great Lakes side you receive 33 trains (not 25) and 32 ships (not 50), as I stated before.

So on the World side you receive 75 pieces and keep 60. When you put the 15 remaining pieces in the box, then there are 23 pieces of your color in the box: 15 returning after choosing tickets and 8 trains already in the box.
There are 33 trains in each player color and you receive 25.

Then you can exchange pieces until there are no more trains in the box (see page 7). Changing over and over results in 33 trains and 27 ships in your possession and 23 ships in the box.

Now you have 33 trains. However the rules on page 3 say you can't have more than 25.
Now do you see my point?

I'm sorry if you feel insulted.



I don't feel insulted at all. On the world side, you receive 75 pieces. The remaining 8 are not regarded as "in the box". They are not available, and should be put somewhere else. You put 15 pieces in the box and those are available for exchanges, as Eric said. The others are not available.
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Jeremy Coe
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Ronnay wrote:
There is no way for any player to have more than either 25 trains or 50 ships on this map.



The rule is that a player can't have more than 25 trains or 50 ships on the map, not in their supply. If a player wants to trade their pieces during the game so they have more than 25 trains or 50 ships in their supply they can, it would just be a bad move.
 
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Greg Darcy
Australia
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New South Wales
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The way we have resolved this is to put the "rejected" pieces in a bowl - one for each player.

The ones in the bowl are the only ones available for exchange.

So, assuming the World side, and the recommended beginner numbers of 40/20,
There are 10 ships and 5 trains in each bowl at the start of the game. And 40 Ships and 20 trains in each player's hand. Using the bowl also makes it easier to confirm scoring at the end of the game.
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Chris Cully
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You're including the component count in the game-specific rules:

There is no way for any player to have more than either 25 trains or 50 ships on [the world map].
There is no way for any player to have more than either 33 trains or 32 ships on [the great lakes map].

The box contains all of the ships and trains you might need to play either game, so you have to have 33 trains in case you want to play the great lakes, and 50 boats in case you want to play the world map. There are also spares. These are the components that come with the game

When you select the game you want to play, you then separate out the pieces that you cant use in the game you've chosen to play. For the world map, there are 8 trains that you can't use (plus any spares). For great lakes, there are 18 ships that you can't use.(plus any spares) For the duration of the game you are choosing to play, assume that these no longer exist.

Arguably they could have spelled this out further, but the only issue is that they've included independent rule books for each of the sides of the board, and those rule books don't reference the other game at all.
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Ryan Green
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I think the consensus regarding the reason for the maximum for each map being different from what comes in the box is correct, but I am not sure it matters in real play. If a player picks their starting assortment according to the rules and then trades for pieces from the box, could they really have an advantage by going over the recommended limit for the map? Seems like going too heavy on trains with the world map is actually a disadvantage and having to spend both an action and some points to trade is a solid deterrent. Has it come up that someone was at the map limit for a piece and wanted to trade for more to complete a route/ticket, or is this hypothetical?
 
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Sven F.
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Mac13eth wrote:
I think the consensus regarding the reason for the maximum for each map being different from what comes in the box is correct, but I am not sure it matters in real play. If a player picks their starting assortment according to the rules and then trades for pieces from the box, could they really have an advantage by going over the recommended limit for the map? Seems like going too heavy on trains with the world map is actually a disadvantage and having to spend both an action and some points to trade is a solid deterrent. Has it come up that someone was at the map limit for a piece and wanted to trade for more to complete a route/ticket, or is this hypothetical?


It happened to me in one of the two plays I've done. It might have been better to choose another strategy from the beginning. In the actual situation however, rather late in the game, it would have been advantageous for me to get more train pieces than I was allowed to.
 
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Ryan Green
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Fomalhaut wrote:
It happened to me in one of the two plays I've done. It might have been better to choose another strategy from the beginning. In the actual situation however, rather late in the game, it would have been advantageous for me to get more train pieces than I was allowed to.


Interesting; if that happened at my table, I'd allow it, but I also think more experience with the maps will help prevent the need for this rules-call. At the end of the day, I am glad they gave us enough bits to play both maps and didn't sell one of the maps as an expansion with a handful of bits to make up the difference.
 
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