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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Mysterious Chanting --- Encounter Deck Card rss

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Jimmy Pattaya
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It says: "If there are no Cultist enemies in play, search the encounter deck & discard pile for a Cultist enemy & draw it (shuffle the encounter deck).

#1: If I have no Cultists in play, is it my choice where I search & which Cultist I take --- even if I know I have a Cultist in my discard pile?

#2: If I take a Cultist from my discard pile (without searching the encounter deck), then do I still need to do the shuffle?

#3: When you do shuffle, do you shuffle only the encounter deck & not the discard pile into the encounter deck?
 
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Vadim Golembo
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My feeling was that you search the encounter deck first, if none their then the discard. Then shuffle.
 
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Dee
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You can choose (it's essentially 'pick a cultist and find it').

Don't shuffle the discard, leave it in the same order. It's open information, so riffling through it isn't important.

Only shuffle the encounter deck if you looked in there. If, say, you had just used scrying on the encounter deck, you may opt to only search the discard (even if it only contains a 'worse' cultist) so that you can avoid shuffling the encounter deck.
 
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Matthew Speth
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My reading of the card is that you are searching the discard AND the encounter deck as one search (you are searching both and not choosing one or the other) . This means the encounter deck must be shuffled even if you just grab the card from the discard.

You can't choose not to search the encounter deck in order to avoid shuffling it.

(To save time, if i grab a card from the discard and don't search the encounter deck, I don't shuffle since the encounter deck is already in a random state. Unfortunately, if I know any card position due to scry or something similar then it has to be shuffled)

Not 100percent sure this is correct for Arkham, but this exact situation was clarified in the LOTR lcg and it works the way I stated in that game.

(I will admit that it has been so long that i cant remember if that clarification came from an official source or not, so I could be horribly wrong.)
 
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Dee
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It doesn't 'fit' - for want of a better word here - in my mind, from a design standpoint, for that card to have an additional potential negative aspect of re-randomising the encounter deck unnecessarily. The card's intention, its purpose, is to make a cultist more dangerous, or otherwise introduce a cultist. The shuffling of the encounter deck is obviously required once you compromise the integrity of its randomness, but I sincerely feel like that sole aspect is the only reason the shuffle is mentioned (in parentheses, no less).

And I'm struggling with the notion of the player being instructed they must search both deck and discard for a single card; that carries with it too much an air of "but why?" It brings an implicit expectation of searching, say, the encounter deck and grabbing your acolyte before shuffling back up, then the game saying, "no, wait, search the discard too please." Feels.. loose. Messy.

Further to all that, I'm not even sure about Grim Ruling this one, since I think it can be argued that it's innately beneficial to pull a cultist from the encounter deck rather than the discard.

I'd be interested to see the overall player consensus on this assuming there's a split, or my interpretation is outside the norm. An official verdict would be great too, obviously, ha.
 
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Matthew Speth
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So i found the clarification for the lotr game in a thread that was rounding up offical answers to many questions:

Quote:

Question
There is a number of effects that say "Search the Encounter Deck and the Discard Pile for x" Dose this command imply a order.. as in search the encounter deck 1st, then the discard pile or dose it mean you can simply choose witch one you want to search in? If so why dose it not say "or" instead of "and".

Also, as it says "and" dose this mean that you gave to search in both. So the encounter deck gets shuffled no matter what? Like is the command saying "reveal the encounter deck, and look in the discard pile at the same time, and choose card X, then shuffle the encounter deck"

Answer
You are searching both the encounter deck and the discard pile, so order does not matter. If you choose to search the encounter deck first, even if you find a candidate for the search, you should continue to search the discard pile. And vice versa. Abstractly, you are searching them both at the same time--while physically you can only look through one stack of cards at a time--it's still considered one single big search.

And yes, the encounter deck should be shuffled, even when you find your candidate in the discard pile



This was in an official answer thread concerning LOTR TCG, not for Arkham, but it is the exact same situation. The answer is from Nate French who also works on Arkham LCG.

From a personal standpoint I really dislike sloppy templating, so I appreciate that AND in this case means AND instead of meaning AND/OR.

On the other hand it is Arkham so maybe they will mess with my sanity and ultimately decide it does mean AND/OR for this game


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Dee
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Thank you! I'm torn now, haha.

Ah, screw it. I'll go with the Nate version for AHLCG from now on. It being his response, even though for a separate game, is pretty much top tier power levels in terms of swaying me away from my own interpretation. Not saying I like the ruling, for all the reasons given above, but I'll use it.
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Matthew Speth
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Noaloha wrote:

I'd be interested to see the overall player consensus on this assuming there's a split, or my interpretation is outside the norm. An official verdict would be great too, obviously, ha.


Honestly, I think most people interpret it the same way as you. And ultimately is doesn't affect the game too much. Maybe something will come down the line later where the difference is massive, but for now my way just makes encounter deck manipulation a touch more vulnerable.
 
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Jimmy Pattaya
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Citizen Badger wrote:
You would never ever shuffle the encounter deck if you take the cultist out of the discard pile. That's a big no.

Also the OP kept mentioning'my' discard pile. Note that this card instructs you to look at the Encounter discard pile and deck only. So even if there was a cultist card in your discard you'd rather put into play over one from the encounter deck that you do not have this option.


Sorry, I should have said "encounter discard pile" instead of "my discard pile". The former is what I had in mind when I posed the question.

I'm happy now I asked these questions because of the spirited debate. I also think that this should work the same way as Lord of The Rings LCG --- although I never played that game. The ruling seemed very definitive & I see no reason to change it for Arkham. Thanks for all your feedback.
 
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Matthew Sigal
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The way I read this card is you always have to search the encounter deck first, so even if there are no cultists there - it'll get shuffled. Only if it is empty do you go to the discard.

That feels grimmer than just taking the piddly Acolyte from the top of the discard and throwing it back on the board.
 
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Joe Casadonte
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Do you choose which Cultist to put into play, or is it just the first one encountered?

Do you add a doom token to the cultist just put into play in this manner?
 
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Jan Probst
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Choose.
Not from the Treachery. Yes from the Cultist's own come-into-play effect, if any.
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