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Vast: The Crystal Caverns» Forums » General

Subject: How is the solo game? rss

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The Abyss Walker
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Hello to all,

This game looks really cool and with the new kickstarter I'm thinking about backing, but I play games mostly solo.

How do you guys rate Vast as a solo game?

Cheers.

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Ed Hughes
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I've only tried the solo game for the knight and the dragon.

I can only describe the experience as 'servicable'. The game's real selling point is the asymmetric gameplay, which doesn't really come across in a solo game. While I think it's remarkable that they came up with variants for every permutation of roles from 1-5 players, as a solo game, you could certainly do worse, but there are definitely much better choices.
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Ethan Furman
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JoaoC wrote:
How do you guys rate Vast as a solo game?


I would rate it at least 4 out of 5. Vast is simply a great game -- especially if like mazes!
 
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The Abyss Walker
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What about playing multiple roles solitaire? Is there any hidden information that would make this not feasible? Would the game still be fun?

I already played wargames in that way.

Thank you.
 
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Ethan Furman
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JoaoC wrote:
What about playing multiple roles solitaire? Is there any hidden information that would make this not feasible? Would the game still be fun?

The Knight has sidequests, the Goblins have Secrets, and the Dragon has Power cards. Considering how close most games are, that information could be critical... you'll have to try it and let us know.
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David Somerville
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JoaoC wrote:
What about playing multiple roles solitaire? Is there any hidden information that would make this not feasible? Would the game still be fun?

Our developer, Kyle Woelfel, has clocked in countless solo games—many of which were before he joined the team, just playing multi-role solo. In my experience, the extreme asymmetry makes that play style much more fun and feasible. Granted, you still have access to otherwise hidden information, but if you can separate player knowledge and role knowledge, I think it's a lot of fun.
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Roger Bartels
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JoaoC wrote:
What about playing multiple roles solitaire? Is there any hidden information that would make this not feasible? Would the game still be fun?

I already played wargames in that way.

Thank you.


I've played a number of games as all the roles, completely solitaire. I've also played solo as every role that you can. The game truly shines the most when all of the roles are present. That said, I'm enjoying the game playing all of the roles myself. Although there is some hidden information, I'm not finding that the hidden information is so critical as to ruin the experience. There are also little ways to limit your knowledge (e.g., when drawing your hand back up for the dragon at the end of his turn, don't look at the power cards). As a mostly solitaire gamer myself, I can recommend the game to another solitaire gamer, particularly given its unique mechanics, great theme, and fantastic art style.
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Kyle
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smrvl wrote:
Our developer, Kyle Woelfel, has clocked in countless solo games—many of which were before he joined the team, just playing multi-role solo.
Well over 100 solo plays and counting at this point, and in pretty much every combination and setup possible (plus several that technically don't exist yet).


The solo variants for the individual roles were each intentionally set up to play as close to the multiplayer game as possible. Some of the goals do change, like the Knight needing to find and smash crystals instead of killing the dragon, but all of those altered goals show up in other 2P+ variants too. The Knight, for example, uses that same goal in any game that doesn't include the Dragon, all the way up to a 4-player KGCT setup. Other roles get abstracted when not directly involved in the game, like tiles getting placed at the end of each player's turn when there's no Cave, or the Knight facing constant ambushes (Goblin Infestation) when there isn't a Goblin player. You still do lose some of the asymmetry when playing just a single role, and some abilities aren't going to be useful without certain other players present, but on the other hand you get four* drastically different solo variants in a single box, each with multiple difficulty settings.
*There's no Cave player solo currently available, but there is stuff in development - it's just taken a lower priority while getting the rules cleaned up for the reprint.


Multiplayer solo, where you control 2-5 roles at once, works awesome with this game. I enjoy playing that way just as much as, if not more than, playing the individual roles solo, because you do get to play around with the asymmetry a lot more and you can do a lot more experimenting with different options and tactics. There is some hidden information across the roles, but because of the asymmetry, it's almost entirely a non-issue. Knowing which Sidequests the Knight has doesn't really change how the other roles adapt to her because trying to deny those will usually hurt them more than it hurts her. Knowing which Secrets the Goblins are sitting on has the most impact on the Knight, but even then the most powerful ones tend to get used on the turn they're drawn, or the Goblins can get in positions where it's impossible for her to avoid them entirely. The Dragon's cards are easy, because as mentioned above you simply don't look at them until starting the Dragon's turn. The Cave tiles can be drawn randomly, but even if they're not, the simple act of playing through the other roles makes it extremely difficult to remember where you put specific tiles. The Thief has no hidden information, so no problems there at all.
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Marco Teti
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Woelf wrote:
smrvl wrote:
Our developer, Kyle Woelfel, has clocked in countless solo games—many of which were before he joined the team, just playing multi-role solo.
Well over 100 solo plays and counting at this point, and in pretty much every combination and setup possible (plus several that technically don't exist yet).


The solo variants for the individual roles were each intentionally set up to play as close to the multiplayer game as possible. Some of the goals do change, like the Knight needing to find and smash crystals instead of killing the dragon, but all of those altered goals show up in other 2P+ variants too. The Knight, for example, uses that same goal in any game that doesn't include the Dragon, all the way up to a 4-player KGCT setup. Other roles get abstracted when not directly involved in the game, like tiles getting placed at the end of each player's turn when there's no Cave, or the Knight facing constant ambushes (Goblin Infestation) when there isn't a Goblin player. You still do lose some of the asymmetry when playing just a single role, and some abilities aren't going to be useful without certain other players present, but on the other hand you get four* drastically different solo variants in a single box, each with multiple difficulty settings.
*There's no Cave player solo currently available, but there is stuff in development - it's just taken a lower priority while getting the rules cleaned up for the reprint.


Multiplayer solo, where you control 2-5 roles at once, works awesome with this game. I enjoy playing that way just as much as, if not more than, playing the individual roles solo, because you do get to play around with the asymmetry a lot more and you can do a lot more experimenting with different options and tactics. There is some hidden information across the roles, but because of the asymmetry, it's almost entirely a non-issue. Knowing which Sidequests the Knight has doesn't really change how the other roles adapt to her because trying to deny those will usually hurt them more than it hurts her. Knowing which Secrets the Goblins are sitting on has the most impact on the Knight, but even then the most powerful ones tend to get used on the turn they're drawn, or the Goblins can get in positions where it's impossible for her to avoid them entirely. The Dragon's cards are easy, because as mentioned above you simply don't look at them until starting the Dragon's turn. The Cave tiles can be drawn randomly, but even if they're not, the simple act of playing through the other roles makes it extremely difficult to remember where you put specific tiles. The Thief has no hidden information, so no problems there at all.


Nice summary. I'm looking forward to this even more now. Boy my wallet is getting lighter these days.
 
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Patrick Leder
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Since the Ghost is about possessing the other players Kyle has done an admirable job adding shadow roles onto the game as the player count dips.

The coming Nightmare Unicorn will yield a richer solo game as the player has to give chase.
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The Abyss Walker
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Woelf wrote:
smrvl wrote:
Our developer, Kyle Woelfel, has clocked in countless solo games—many of which were before he joined the team, just playing multi-role solo.
Well over 100 solo plays and counting at this point, and in pretty much every combination and setup possible (plus several that technically don't exist yet).


The solo variants for the individual roles were each intentionally set up to play as close to the multiplayer game as possible. Some of the goals do change, like the Knight needing to find and smash crystals instead of killing the dragon, but all of those altered goals show up in other 2P+ variants too. The Knight, for example, uses that same goal in any game that doesn't include the Dragon, all the way up to a 4-player KGCT setup. Other roles get abstracted when not directly involved in the game, like tiles getting placed at the end of each player's turn when there's no Cave, or the Knight facing constant ambushes (Goblin Infestation) when there isn't a Goblin player. You still do lose some of the asymmetry when playing just a single role, and some abilities aren't going to be useful without certain other players present, but on the other hand you get four* drastically different solo variants in a single box, each with multiple difficulty settings.
*There's no Cave player solo currently available, but there is stuff in development - it's just taken a lower priority while getting the rules cleaned up for the reprint.


Multiplayer solo, where you control 2-5 roles at once, works awesome with this game. I enjoy playing that way just as much as, if not more than, playing the individual roles solo, because you do get to play around with the asymmetry a lot more and you can do a lot more experimenting with different options and tactics. There is some hidden information across the roles, but because of the asymmetry, it's almost entirely a non-issue. Knowing which Sidequests the Knight has doesn't really change how the other roles adapt to her because trying to deny those will usually hurt them more than it hurts her. Knowing which Secrets the Goblins are sitting on has the most impact on the Knight, but even then the most powerful ones tend to get used on the turn they're drawn, or the Goblins can get in positions where it's impossible for her to avoid them entirely. The Dragon's cards are easy, because as mentioned above you simply don't look at them until starting the Dragon's turn. The Cave tiles can be drawn randomly, but even if they're not, the simple act of playing through the other roles makes it extremely difficult to remember where you put specific tiles. The Thief has no hidden information, so no problems there at all.


I thank you for your detailed answer, but my wallet doesn't

Cheers.
 
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Ethan Furman
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JoaoC wrote:

I thank you for your detailed answer, but my wallet doesn't


I hear ya! Every KS I see now is measured by "Is it good enough to risk not getting the next Vast offering?"
 
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