$30.00
Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Alternate title: Things that bugged me about 4th edition.

Small list of suggestions for if/when 5th edition comes out.


1)Streamline the 'draw card' text on spaces, to make it easier to tell what a space does from across the table.
This is more of a problem with the various expansion boards, as many of the spaces look similar enough *cough*Woodland*cough*, but can do very different things. And even then, not all 'draw' spaces function the same.
A fairly simple shorthand would be "Draw X, Max X", which could further be enhanced with colored boxes or something.
Have a 'draw' symbol [red?], and a 'max cards in space' symbol [blue?].
So most of the main board spaces would have [Red box "1" > Blue box "1"].
Most of the City spaces would have [Red box "1" > Blue box "3"].
This would greatly reduce the text of the 'just draw' spaces, making it easier/faster to tell if a space is 'special' from across the table.

2) Fluff vs. Mechanics on cards, particularly Enemy cards.
Every Enemy card has text that basically says "A scary ____ appears, it stays here until killed".
Having to (speed) read EVERY SINGLE Enemy card to see if it actually "does" anything is annoying (particularly when playing with new/infrequent players).
I don't want to get rid of the fluff, just make it more obviously 'this does nothing special'.
Maybe bold the functional text and italicize the fluff text?

Thoughts? Additions? Tacos?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Tubb
United States
Fuquay Varina
NC
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Good ideas. Also, use a different word than "value" to denote base/starting stats. Maybe "base" or even "starting". It isn't intuitive that "Craft value" is your starting Craft only or that your "Life value" is your max instead of your current life.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Look on my works ye mighty and despair
United Kingdom
Huddersfield
West Yorkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Get rid of fate points. Anything that leads to less toads is against the true spirit of Talisman.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
DomaGB
United States
Green Bay area
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Abiezer Coppe wrote:
Get rid of fate points. Anything that leads to less toads is against the true spirit of Talisman.


No, I love fate.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
3) Is there a better way to do the "Gain a [massive list] cards"?
First idea that comes to mind is replacing "Gain your choice of STR, CFT, Spell, Fate, etc..." with a Keyword. Boon maybe? "Gain a Boon"?
But then that seems a bit TOO short, and newer players would have to reference something else to know all their options...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Plaid Dragon
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
grarrrg wrote:
Alternate title: Things that bugged me about 4th edition.

Small list of suggestions for if/when 5th edition comes out.


1)Streamline the 'draw card' text on spaces,

2) Fluff vs. Mechanics on cards, particularly Enemy cards.

Having to (speed) read EVERY SINGLE Enemy card to see if it actually "does" anything is annoying


First of all... great points. I agree completely. For #2 I'm totally down for enemies with NO FLUFF. "CRAFT 6"... or "STRENGTH 10" are pretty self explanatory.

However, I take GREAT issue (not really; but if you'll please allow me to stand on my pedestal... ) with your title.

"INEVITABLE"? 4th ed is wrapped, yes, but what kind of possible market could there be right now for a 5th ed.

Talisman "denizens" like myself are likely well sated with all that 4th ed offers us. If I was GW (or whoever holds the rights to Talisman in the future), I would likely wait until the supply of 4th ed on the market is as dry as possible. A short supply/increasing demand situation would foster better interest in a 5th ed.

IMHO, I don't think we'll see anything approaching that for a long while.

It was 14 years between 3rd and 4th. Given such a span we'd be at least 6 away from anything new. Consider also that 4th was the successor of what many claim to be the absolute worst of all the Talismans (unless one is REALLY fond of excessive skulls ). Thus, for 4th ed, the masses were more receptive of a new and superior offering.

So, if we can agree that 4th ed is highly successful, would that not discourage interest in a new and separate title? I think it would. We all know our board gaming habit is expensive. I can't say I'll never change my mind but if 5th ed were coming out tomorrow I'd very likely save my money and keep playing 4th.

Six years from now IS a long time; however, I think a 5th ed might be as many as SIXTEEN years away.

Wait... what am I saying. 5th ed is already out. It's called "Relic".
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Plaid_Dragon wrote:
However, I take GREAT issue (not really; but if you'll please allow me to stand on my pedestal... ) with your title.

"INEVITABLE"? 4th ed is wrapped, yes, but what kind of possible market could there be right now for a 5th ed.

"Inevitable", not "impending".
The success of 4th pretty much guarantees there will be a 5th _eventually_.

Besides, it's highly unlikely anyone with the power to actually do anything would ever read this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Davy Ashleydale
United States
Oakland
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Abiezer Coppe wrote:
Get rid of fate points. Anything that leads to less toads is against the true spirit of Talisman.


We still manage to turn into toads fairly often.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Plaid Dragon
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
randomlife wrote:
Abiezer Coppe wrote:
Get rid of fate points. Anything that leads to less toads is against the true spirit of Talisman.


We still manage to turn into toads fairly often.


Truth... and it's even funnier when the candidate-toad in question FAILS his/her fate role and is toaded anyway.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon New
United Kingdom
Taunton
Somerset
flag msg tools
designer
Text coming soon... probably...
badge
Get tipsy and fight a farmer with Strength 3
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Double Toadings are the best!
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ben dubby
msg tools
Revamp how movement works. There are Maaany movement variations that play better than the game's rules.

Personally I prefer:
1. Move clockwise up to 6 spaces
2. If a square has a monster on it stops your movement (so you can't move past a monster)
3. Marked squares also stop your movement. These are crags, deserts, and really anywhere else where landing on it is considered "bad".

I've read so many movement variations and so many of them are really cool.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
I believe in a thing called Death
United States
Evansville
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I like the text changes with The Cataclysm... The fate system, IMHO, is essential to balance out the pure luck factor by allowing a 'pick and choose your battles'system for dealing with bad luck... A homebrew expansion I am working on now introduces the idea of adding your current fate to a small number of situations where you have to roll a die and see what happens---this way it's still very luck driven, but you could have increased your odds by holding on to the fate better...you had some hand in controlling how lucky you are (besides the fact that some characters have only 1 or 2 fate and are thus simply born unlucky,). Do you want to use your luck to win a battle, or keep it the whole game to increase your over-all luck, or a balance of both? Most of all I really want to see more interesting decisions put into the game in the form of both spaces and cards i.e. items with secondary effects upon discard; more interesting enemies that have unique effects or conditions; objects and spells that will let you do this--OR this other thing; that type of stuff. Don't get me wrong---Talisman is my favorite game of all time (no nostalgia factor, I got into this game 4 years ago) but admittedly one of its weakest areas is in the choice department and I'd like to feel that not only am I playing a unique character, but I'm also playing that unique character in my own unique way.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
grarrrg wrote:
Alternate title: Things that bugged me about 4th edition.

Small list of suggestions for if/when 5th edition comes out.


2) Fluff vs. Mechanics on cards, particularly Enemy cards.
Every Enemy card has text that basically says "A scary ____ appears, it stays here until killed".
Having to (speed) read EVERY SINGLE Enemy card to see if it actually "does" anything is annoying (particularly when playing with new/infrequent players).
I don't want to get rid of the fluff, just make it more obviously 'this does nothing special'.
Maybe bold the functional text and italicize the fluff text?

Thoughts? Additions? Tacos?


Your 'Fluff' is my 'Theme'. Really, why not do away with the pictures and text altogether and just have giant blue or red numbers on the card? Your're talking a second or two a card, this game is not a race!

I would like to hear more people listing problems with specific cards, or how to better combine the boards and expansions through interlocking rules and pieces.

I would like a rule that you must complete each expansion board in play, for example. Somehow have a lesser-Talisman or something you have to acquire to advance to the center. It annoys me when people completely skip some of the side boards.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
greenalfonzo wrote:
grarrrg wrote:
I don't want to get rid of the fluff, just make it more obviously 'this does nothing special'.


Your 'Fluff' is my 'Theme'. Really, why not do away with the pictures and text altogether and just have giant blue or red numbers on the card? Your're talking a second or two a card, this game is not a race!


First, take note of the part of my quote I left.
There are loads of games that have clearly defined "rules text" and "flavor text" on the same card.

Second, I am aware it is not a race, but the game can get plenty long enough as is, and anything to save some time, however minor, would be nice.
I mostly play Talisman with the family, and they have a tendency to read every single word, on every single card, out loud. Being able to tell them "you only need to read the bold part" could speed things up a touch.

greenalfonzo wrote:
I would like a rule that you must complete each expansion board in play, for example. Somehow have a lesser-Talisman or something you have to acquire to advance to the center. It annoys me when people completely skip some of the side boards.

There is an alternate ending in Woodland that requires you visit/"complete" (at least) 3 of the 4 expansions. Maybe mix-n-match alternate endings?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
marcin marcinek
msg tools
mb
I'll repost my ideas from another forum:

Main goals:
- less randomness, but keep chaotic spirit of the game
- more depends on player's choices
- greater customization in areas where there wasn't any

Board
- for outer and middle regions, add one space on the longer side of the board, remove one on the shorter side. This will make the board more effectively manage space for cards.
- group spaces like hills fields etc together in one area of the board so players with abilities tied to those spaces can hang around there if they want to.
- all text removed from "draw cards" spaces and replaced with symbols like in relic
- most other spaces lose their text and get "draw two cards from [space name] and encounter one of them". Each specific space has a mini deck of 6 cards that's placed on that space. This also replaces denizens
--- some spaces have to keep some of their text, namely the sentinel, warlock's cave, portal of power, desert
- city renamed to town to avoid confusion with city expansion
- characters can move what they rolled or less, and both the board and all adventure cards are redesigned with that important rule in mind.
- two more ruins spaces between tavern and town
- all characters start in the outer region
- a modified version of remnants. At the start of the game put one remnant card facedown on each "draw cards" space in the outer region. Some of those cards are like remnants cards, others are terrain cards that are not copies of existing spaces but unique
- at the start of the game you have to choose ending card (affects only inner region and end of game), and scenario card (a set of extra rules for entire game, sometimes game setup). Those cards are places in the inner region.
- all inner regions spaces except plain of peril and CoC are gone, replaced by ending card.

Characters
- rest mechanic
- three attributes: Might, Skill, Will similar to relic
- starting lives most characters have 8, stronger enemies take 2 or 3 life if lost to
- spells are not discarded when cast but turned facedown, can be regained after rest. spells are redesigned with that in mind
- fate can be spent in more ways than rerolls
- skill attribute affects movement somehow, and is important when encountering Places and traps
- character sheet tells you how much gold you start with. more variety with starting gold
- follower limit
- trinkets take up inventory space, just less than normal objects

Mechanics
- rest mechanic
- universally in the game you want to roll high
- attribute tests are introduced, unifying all manners of strength and craft-related rolls (except combat of course)
- only one type of combat, like in relic
- instead of being toaded, characters are cursed. Cursed characters must reroll all 6s they roll.
- characters can also be blessed, blessed characters may reroll all 1s they roll.
- some objects and followers have charges like in relic
- different armour system where you can accumulate armour from different sources
- 3 or 4 spell decks with different themes and for different strategies
- day/night mechanic is in the base game, some cards have two text boxes, one for day, one for night
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Blanch Blancherson
msg tools
mbmbmb
Personally, I think the whole system needs a good redesign. Make the Talisman 'universe' into a thing that can be cohesively branded and utilized as a system in other games. What I mean is, similar to how Descent: Journeys In The Dark takes place in the world of Terrinoth, and that world is also utilized in the games Rune Bound, Rune Wars, Battle Lore, etc...

Also, some sort of app implementation which gets rid of the cards and allows the players to focus on the challenges would be an interesting way to take it. That's what they did with Descent and everyone loved it.

I do agree with many of the ideas presented in this thread in terms of various fixes. Just mechanically the whole board is clunky. My thought is to have large hexes with distances on them which are randomized and have set distance markers on them (think Star Trek Fleet Captains) and allow the players to place in any direction they like with the limitations of only allowing certain hexes to attach to certain other ones, to maintain a coherent theme.

Also, either have each character have a preset amount of movement as a stat, or, if you really want to maintain the roll and move mechanic, allow players to MOVE UP TO the rolled amount rather than having the player move the exact rolled amount. This allows the player to exercise a much greater range of motion, while still maintaining the roll and move mechanic (this, incidentally, can be applied to any roll and move game ever).

Make the Day/Night mechanic based on rounds rather than on whether an Event card is drawn, and use it as a timekeeping device such that the players have to get to the Crown Of Command within a certain amount of days, etc...

Give characters a more elaborate set of stats such as knowledge, luck, strength, defense, speed, detection, evasion, etc... and implement those as choices in the cards that are drawn.

One of the most unsatisfying things about Talisman is that you draw one card (or several) and you just do what it says. That's ok if you have a cool event or a decent monster to fight, but when you just get a bag o' gold.....that's a lame turn, then you have to wait a few minutes to come around again. My homebrew solution to this was to break all of the cards down by type (Place, Event, Stranger, Enemy) and for each player's turn, they draw a random card of each type. This admittedly makes every players turn significantly longer, but it's also significantly more satisfying and really causes the player to feel like they had a significant mini story line on that space. These cards are then left on the space and the next player to land there draws one of each again, randomizes them, and goes forward with their turn.

Unfortunately, this has the side effect of breaking some of the other mechanics such as the way the Werewolf and Harbinger interact with the game, but I've tried various fixes for each. Also, in order to sustain the quantity of each type, I've basically had to ignore the backs of each card and making all side board decks rolled together. This destroys the flavor of the side boards and basically makes them useless.

Another idea I've dabbled with is to have all player information secret, so each player has a screen up around their play area preventing other players knowing what your stats are. That has had mixed results.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Blanch Blancherson
msg tools
mbmbmb
Also, make Alignment a mechanic that actually has some plot-based weight in the game, and not just a simple 'how you encounter certain spaces' difference.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Samuel Bailey
United States
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
While working at FFG I was really hoping that I would get to design a 5th edition, but alas, it was not a future the Prophetess could see. I look forward to seeing what GW comes up with.

The biggest change I would like to see is new corner boards. The Dungeon, Highland, City, and Woods are all classics, but I would be happy with a change at this point. Also would like those corner boards to be more than a few changed spaces and cards, but actually hold some new special rules that make each corner feel very different from each other.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Colin
United Kingdom
HITCHIN
HERTS
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
How about Talisman: Legacy. It would have permanent board changes, a progressing adventure deck, depletion of items, scenario based end game with doom track so the game is played 20 times each game around the 2 hour mark, multiple character progression.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Plaid Dragon
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
therdfamily wrote:
How about Talisman: Legacy. It would have permanent board changes, a progressing adventure deck, depletion of items, scenario based end game with doom track so the game is played 20 times each game around the 2 hour mark, multiple character progression.


I'd only try it if players were toaded PERMANENTLY!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
marcin marcinek
msg tools
mb
therdfamily wrote:
How about Talisman: Legacy. It would have permanent board changes, a progressing adventure deck, depletion of items, scenario based end game with doom track so the game is played 20 times each game around the 2 hour mark, multiple character progression.

LOVE-IT-!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Samuel Bailey wrote:
The biggest change I would like to see is new corner boards. The Dungeon, Highland, City, and Woods are all classics, but I would be happy with a change at this point. Also would like those corner boards to be more than a few changed spaces and cards, but actually hold some new special rules that make each corner feel very different from each other.

I read this as "bring back Timescape".
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Samuel Bailey
United States
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
therdfamily wrote:
How about Talisman: Legacy. It would have permanent board changes, a progressing adventure deck, depletion of items, scenario based end game with doom track so the game is played 20 times each game around the 2 hour mark, multiple character progression.


I actually play a variant of Talisman with my friends called Talisman: Continuum. We started with just the core game and seeded the deck with 3 Continuum cards that unlock certain parts of the Reaper expansion when drawn. As we have progressed new Continuum cards have been added for other expansions, and so far we have unlocked all the way through the Nether Realm.

Other rules include cards and characters being "voided", which means they are semi-removed from the game. For example a character killed by the Reaper is voided, and all cards left in the Dungeon are voided (meaning the Dungeon slowly clears out over time). Cards that are on the board at the end of the game are left there for the start of the next game. City shop cards replenish slowly, only 1 card per shop per game.

It is really quite a fun way to play Talisman. There was some talk of making something like it official for Cataclysm, but then the agreement with GW ended.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.