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Subject: moving fellowship - applying hunt damage order rss

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Dandelion
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as the subject states, I'm unclear if one moves the fellowship first, then secondarily looks at the result of any hunt tile (in which case moving to the crack of doom with under 12 corruption immediately wins the free people the game), or if the movement and hunt tile are applied simultaneously, in which case the last hunt tile could affect the outcome of the game.

my gaming partner and I couldn't figure out who won in a recent game, as I moved into the last space on the track with 10 corruption (winning the game immediately, I thought), but the final hunt tile did 2 damage (winning the game for him, he thought.

any help would be appreciated.
 
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Mark L
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If you reach the Crack of Doom while simultaneously hitting 12 Corruption, the Shadow player wins. This is covered under "Winning the Game", where the Free Peoples only win if the Ring-bearers are on the Crack of Doom and have fewer than 12 Corruption.
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Pickle the Hutt
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Note that if Gollum was the guide (as he should have been by that point) and the tile did not reveal, then you can use Gollum's ability to reveal and reduce corruption by 1. Book ending! Also, remember that standard numbered tiles do not reveal if Gollum is guiding.

You can also use Merry and Pippin abilities immediately to reduce corruption (they did not have to be the guide before the tile draw, just the guide after taking an initial casualty).
 
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Kevin Chapman
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From page 43 of the Rulebook:
Quote:
When the Fellowship has completed all five steps on the Mordor Track, the Crack of Doom has been reached and the Free Peoples player wins the game (unless the Ring-bearers have reached 12 Corruption points, see page 44).


All five steps must be "completed", which means that the Hunt tile drawn because of the last move must be resolved before victory can be determined.
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Dandelion
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markino wrote:
If you reach the Crack of Doom while simultaneously hitting 12 Corruption, the Shadow player wins. This is covered under "Winning the Game", where the Free Peoples only win if the Ring-bearers are on the Crack of Doom and have fewer than 12 Corruption.


Well, it seems to me as soon as you move there you win, as per the 'Winning the game' section, where it states that if the ting bearer is on the crack of doom at any time during a turn (bolding in rules), then they instantly win. Why would you then go to the secondary step of checking the tile?

(this is also my response to the "all five steps must be completed" comment above--why would the rules talk about winning 'at any time' one is on the crack of doom with under 12 corruption if this was the case?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just don't know where you got the ruling on simeltaneousness. I don't see the word simultaneous anywhere in the rules wrt hunt tiles. Generally, the rules say 'every time the free people player moves the fellowship, the shadow player rolls dice to determine the effect of the hunt', indicating that that movement happens first, which then triggers the hunt tile resolution second. if this is consistent throughout the game, then the person walking to the crack of doom with under 12 corruption would instantly win, regardless of the hunt tile damage.
 
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Kristofer Bengtsson
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When you move the Fellowship you go through all the steps of moving the Fellowhsip, which includes the drawing of the Hunt tile and dealing with possible Corruption damage. You know, there are Hunt tiles that prevent you from moving on the Mordor track, right?

Page 43 of the rules:

Special Rules for when the Fellowship is on the Mordor track.
(My highlight)

When the Free Peoples player tries to move the Fellowship during the Action Resolution phase, do not roll the Hunt Dice. Instead, automatically draw one tile from the Hunt Pool. The effects of this tile are applied normally as for a successful Hunt, except for the following:
— If the tile drawn shows an Eye, the Hunt Damage is equal to the number of dice in the Hunt Box (including Free Peoples dice previously used for moving the Fellowship during the same turn).
Normally the Fellowship advances one step on the Mordor Track when moving. However, if the tile shows a Stop icon, the Fellowship remains on the same step and does not move forward.



Then you can check the victory condition...


Page 44 of the rules:
(My highlight)

RING-BASED VICTORY CONDITIONS
The most important goal for Sauron is to reclaim the One Ring, while the most important goal for the Free Peoples is to destroy the Ring.
For this reason, if either of those two events occur at any time during a turn, the game ends immediately without waiting for the Victory Check phase.

1) Corruption of the Ring-bearers: If the Ring- bearers have 12 or more Corruption Points, they failed their quest. Sauron regains the Ring for himself and the Shadow player wins the game.

2) Destroying the Ring: If the Ring-bearers figure is on the “Crack of Doom” step on the Mordor Track and the Ring-bearers have fewer than 12 Corruption points, the Ring is destroyed. Sauron is utterly vanquished and the Free Peoples player wins the game.

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Kevin Chapman
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Savory Oliver wrote:
Well, it seems to me as soon as you move there you win, as per the 'Winning the game' section, where it states that if the ting bearer is on the crack of doom at any time during a turn (bolding in rules), then they instantly win. Why would you then go to the secondary step of checking the tile?

(this is also my response to the "all five steps must be completed" comment above--why would the rules talk about winning 'at any time' one is on the crack of doom with under 12 corruption if this was the case?

The phrase "at any time during a turn" refers to the fact that you don't have to wait until the Victory Check phase of the turn to declare victory. It doesn't mean that the action that led to the victory doesn't need to be completely resolved. As I said earlier, the movement action that lands the Fellowship at the Crack of Doom must be completed before the game ends.
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Kevin Chapman
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Also, if the game ended immediately upon reaching Step 5 without drawing and resolving the Hunt tile, how would it be possible to be at Step 5 and have 12 Corruption? If the Fellowship had 12 before moving, the game would have been over at that point, and the final move would never have been made at all. Under those conditions, the clause "and the Ring-bearers have fewer than 12 Corruption points" in victory condition number 2 would be totally unnecessary.
 
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Mattias Elfström
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Savory Oliver wrote:
markino wrote:
If you reach the Crack of Doom while simultaneously hitting 12 Corruption, the Shadow player wins. This is covered under "Winning the Game", where the Free Peoples only win if the Ring-bearers are on the Crack of Doom and have fewer than 12 Corruption.


Well, it seems to me as soon as you move there you win, as per the 'Winning the game' section, where it states that if the ting bearer is on the crack of doom at any time during a turn (bolding in rules), then they instantly win. Why would you then go to the secondary step of checking the tile?

(this is also my response to the "all five steps must be completed" comment above--why would the rules talk about winning 'at any time' one is on the crack of doom with under 12 corruption if this was the case?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just don't know where you got the ruling on simeltaneousness. I don't see the word simultaneous anywhere in the rules wrt hunt tiles. Generally, the rules say 'every time the free people player moves the fellowship, the shadow player rolls dice to determine the effect of the hunt', indicating that that movement happens first, which then triggers the hunt tile resolution second. if this is consistent throughout the game, then the person walking to the crack of doom with under 12 corruption would instantly win, regardless of the hunt tile damage.

I agree that the "at any time" part makes this rule ambiguous. The intention is however what has been described by others.
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Raf B
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Again, as others have pointed out above, "at any time during a turn" refers to any action within a turn, not any time during the resolution of an action.
 
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Mattias Elfström
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Rafamir wrote:
Again, as others have pointed out above, "at any time during a turn" refers to any action within a turn, not any time during the resolution of an action.

I do know that.

My comment was more to the fact that the actual text in the rules does not fully and unambiguously support that. Other complex games sometimes have "living" rulebooks that are constantly updated to handle such things (check out GMT). Perhaps that would be something for Ares to consider?
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