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Mechs vs. Minions» Forums » Rules

Subject: Repairing Slot Damage that is not yet slotted rss

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Jorgen Peddersen
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I had an interesting thing happen in a recent game...

My Mech was undamaged and I needed to take one card of damage from a Minion. I drew a slotted damage card that made my Mech move. It moved me over a Repair Pad via its movement.

This made me wonder whether I could repair the card I was resolving, as it was not yet slotted into my Command Line, but was about to be slotted somewhere after I finished resolving it the first time. I ended up deciding I couldn't repair the damage and slotted it.

The rules don't seem to mention whether you can repair a Slot Damage card before it actually is slotted into your Command Line, so we probably need a dev to answer this conclusively, but what does everyone think?
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Byron S
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I'd be inclined to say that it's valid to repair a non-slotted card, but it's certainly a weird case.
 
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Feet_of_Clay
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Interestingly this isn't as uncommon as it might be. I've had it come up more than once too.

We took the approach of:

The damage was done to your mech by the minion before you hit the repair pad. The only thing that hasn't happened is the "game admin" of putting it on your command line. The 2 things happen simultaneously when you take damage, in our minds.

Therefore we ruled you must fully execute the damage move, but you may "repair" it and not place it on your command line.

But interesting to see what the official ruling is.
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Jonas Vanschooren
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Had this happen aswell. We ruled it couldn't be repaired since we where still in the process of getting that damage.
 
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Dr Gosburo Coffin
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doclj86 wrote:
The damage was done to your mech by the minion before you hit the repair pad. The only thing that hasn't happened is the "game admin" of putting it on your command line. The 2 things happen simultaneously when you take damage, in our minds.

Therefore we ruled you must fully execute the damage move, but you may "repair" it and not place it on your command line.

This was exactly our line of thinking when we encountered the same situation yesterday. We thought it was more thematic that way.

Let's see what the official position is on this one.
 
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Nathan Tiras
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This is accurate.

The damage is dealt and executed but the intent is that game admin shouldn't get in the way of logic (to an extent...you have yordles piloting mechs so we're already in our own universe ). If you weren't damaged, you would not have moved over the repair pad, so it's logical that you could repair the damage that moved you over it in the first place, regardless of whether the game admin of applying it to your line has taken place.

Make sense?

Good question!
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I guess I assumed wrong, although I see no issue with allowing it.

I have one follow-up though...

If I drew two damage from Minions, and revealing the first moved me onto a Repair Pad, could I repair the face-down Damage Card I haven't revealed yet?
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Eirik Johnsbråten
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I would assume you could, following the logic that all the damage happen before you move.
 
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Kevin Salch
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If you repair the face down damage card would you still do is effect? I would say yes as the damage occured.
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Jeff Carter
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costguy wrote:
If you repair the face down damage card would you still do is effect? I would say yes as the damage occured.

I would say yes as well
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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There still seems to be too many questions here, so we definitely need official confirmation.

The face-down card might even be a discard card, so you wouldn't get a benefit if you repaired it but still had to implement it. It would also seem weird if you drew 3 damage, then the first card let you repair the third, but you still have to keep that card around until after implementing the 2nd damage card...
 
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T France
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This thread made me realize I've been playing Slot Damage completely wrong in that I wasn't executing the damage before slotting it!...
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Kevin Salch
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I would say the most consistent would be to reconcile the damage entirely and then do the repair. Only slotted damage would be repairable.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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costguy wrote:
I would say the most consistent would be to reconcile the damage entirely and then do the repair. Only slotted damage would be repairable.

That doesn't work either. Imagine the first damage moving you over the repair pad and then the second damage card slotting into the same as the first. Your method would allow you to end up with no damage, when methods that repair the damage immediately would have you keep one.
 
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Des T.
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My gut instinct would be to apply a similiar method as M:TG does. Place the effects on a stack and work them through, resolving each one fully before moving on to the next. I'd probably go with first in, first out, though.
 
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Sozanek Sozanek
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Clipper wrote:
costguy wrote:
I would say the most consistent would be to reconcile the damage entirely and then do the repair. Only slotted damage would be repairable.

That doesn't work either. Imagine the first damage moving you over the repair pad and then the second damage card slotting into the same as the first. Your method would allow you to end up with no damage, when methods that repair the damage immediately would have you keep one.


I'm certain that's how it works. I mean - you take all of the damage at once (even if you resolve it one by one). You can clearly tell that's the case because you don't get additional damage if a damage card moves you near other minions nor you avoid further damage if a damage card moves you away from minions.
Hence first you resolve damage cards in order and then you resolve whatever else they caused - in this case, going through repair pad.

So yes, if you are lucky, you might end up just like that.

Also, going by this logic - you cannot repair damage cards that are not yet in your command line. I mean, that would be damage prevention not repair.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Consider this: A set of damage cards moves you over a Repair Pad and then into a Spiked Wall. When do you delay the repair until? When do you delay the new Damage from the Spiked Wall until?

It's situations like those that make me think you absolutely have to Repair or draw the new Damage instance immediately, interrupting the resolution of your prior damage cards. Delaying them leads to all sorts of weird timing issues.
 
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Sozanek Sozanek
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Clipper wrote:
Consider this: A set of damage cards moves you over a Repair Pad and then into a Spiked Wall. When do you delay the repair until? When do you delay the new Damage from the Spiked Wall until?

It's situations like those that make me think you absolutely have to Repair or draw the new Damage instance immediately, interrupting the resolution of your prior damage cards. Delaying them leads to all sorts of weird timing issues.


Simple:

- Process all damage cards you took in first position
- Repair damage (if possible)
- Take damage from hitting spiked wall

In this case you cannot repair the damage taken from Spiked Wall, because it is another instance of damage that happened after you moved onto repair pad. Basically, you just need to keep track of what happened first and you cannot use repair pad to fix the future, nor to prevent the damage. Repair is used only for damage that was already done.

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Jorgen Peddersen
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OK, here's another example that makes it unlikely that you are meant to delay things:

Assume you have the following line of things:

M B m O

Where:
M = Mech
B = Bomb
m = Minion
O = Repair Pad

Getting the Bomb onto the Repair Pad happens to be the goal of this Mission. The Bomb has 1 Health remaining.

It is the Minion Phase and the Mech happens to be adjacent to two Minions. The player draws two Famage cards. The first card rolls a Rune die and makes the Mech move two spaces in that direction. The rolled direction is towards the Bomb. The Bomb, pushed by the Mech, crushes the Minion and its Health should drop to 0, but we can't resolve its damage yet as we are still doing the Mech's damage and must delay the Bomb's damage according to you.

The Mech keeps moving and pushes the Bomb onto the Repair Pad. The players win immediately (we know this for a fact from other rulings).

I think we all agree the players should have lost here, though. The Bomb should take its damage from crushing the minion immediately. This would reduce the Bomb's Health to zero and the players lose. It doesn't matter that the Bomb would make it to the Repair Pad too, it already blew up.

If the Bomb damage is meant to happen immediately, interrupting the Mech's damage, surely the Mech's extra damage gained while taking damage should also be implemented immediately.

My main beef is there are no other delay tactics in the game, so I really thing you shouldn't have one here.
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Kevin Salch
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Of course there would also be the case of the "Draw 2 damage" cards. If you can repair them before they are revealed then you would avoid both damage, if you have to wait until it triggers then you could only repair one of the two cards.
 
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Kevin Salch
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In your example, the Bomb getting damaged does not interrupt you resolving damage, the game ending condition would. The bomb would blow up. This is consistent as the bomb being pushed onto the repair pad can also trigger the game end. It has been ruled that game end conditions usually trigger immediately.

So again I think the resolving effects in order that they happened still works. Even in your example.

1. Resolve 1st damage - pushes the bomb into the minion.
- this can immediately unlock a schematic, but would not impact the 2 damage you are already resolving.
- this results in the bomb taking damage, game ends

There is no conflict.

 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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The issue is that you said that if the Mech takes damage while the Mech is resolving damage, you delay resolving that 2nd instance of damage (even drawing the card) until after you finish resolving the first instance.

You are now saying that if the Bomb takes damage while the Mech is resolving damage, you do not delay and resolve that 2nd instance of damage immediately.

Why treat these cases differently?

I also really don't see why Repairs and extra damage to Mechs should be delayed when no other effect in the game is delayed like that.

So how I resolve to play it is that you Repair damage immediately when hitting the pad. You can repair damage that is already slotted, or that you are currently resolving the effect of, but you cannot repair facedown damage you have not yet revealed. If you or anything else takes damage while resolving your own damage, you finish your current damage card and then immediately interrupt to handle the other damage instance before coming back to reveal the rest of your damage.

This seems more consistent with existing rulings to me (especially the game-ending ones).
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Jeff Carter
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Clipper wrote:
The issue is that you said that if the Mech takes damage while the Mech is resolving damage, you delay resolving that 2nd instance of damage (even drawing the card) until after you finish resolving the first instance.

You are now saying that if the Bomb takes damage while the Mech is resolving damage, you do not delay and resolve that 2nd instance of damage immediately.

Why treat these cases differently?

I also really don't see why Repairs and extra damage to Mechs should be delayed when no other effect in the game is delayed like that.

So how I resolve to play it is that you Repair damage immediately when hitting the pad. You can repair damage that is already slotted, or that you are currently resolving the effect of, but you cannot repair facedown damage you have not yet revealed. If you or anything else takes damage while resolving your own damage, you finish your current damage card and then immediately interrupt to handle the other damage instance before coming back to reveal the rest of your damage.

This seems more consistent with existing rulings to me (especially the game-ending ones).

You say that you don't agree with delaying anything, but your method delays initial damage card(s) that haven't resolved yet. You guys are basically arguing about WHICH cards to delay, not about whether to delay anything.

I agree with the people saying that you finish all damage cards before moving on to what happens next. By your method, the repair pad could end up not repairing anything even though you took slotted damage before it, just because of which order you drew the cards.
 
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Sozanek Sozanek
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Clipper wrote:


Why treat these cases differently?


Because victory and defeat conditions take precedence over everything else. That's the reason why you don't finish your command line if you win or lose, etc.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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IdleHacker wrote:
You say that you don't agree with delaying anything, but your method delays initial damage card(s) that haven't resolved yet. You guys are basically arguing about WHICH cards to delay, not about whether to delay anything.

I say that as we have an official ruling that you do finish off your current card that had already started resolving. The other damage cards have not started to resolve yet.

Sozanek wrote:
Clipper wrote:


Why treat these cases differently?


Because victory and defeat conditions take precedence over everything else. That's the reason why you don't finish your command line if you win or lose, etc.


No, I'm saying why do you want to delay when damaging a Mech but do not want to delay when damaging the Bomb? Both are damage, so why do you want to delay one but not the other?
 
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