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Subject: [WIP] Critters Crossing (Contest Ready) -- 2016 Children's Game Contest rss

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Rey Alicea
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Designed for the Children's Game Design PNP Contest


Racing Game Category and Strategy Game Category

Critters Crossing is a race game for 2 - 4 players, ages 7+. 20 min play time.

Players race their Critters around a forest, first to cross the finish line with all five of his Critters, is declared the winner!!

Board and Tiles :https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwW14y3UpobDdVFHVzlCbFcwZG...

Rules :https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwW14y3UpobDeXZhZ3FNb3phbz...
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Peter Gray
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Re: [WIP] Critters Crossing (Ideas Phase/Initial Playtesting) -- 2016 Children's Game Contest
Looks good, making a (probably completely wrong) deduction, players gain a number each turn that corresponds to a row number, a critter in that row can then move?
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Rey Alicea
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Re: [WIP] Critters Crossing (Ideas Phase/Initial Playtesting) -- 2016 Children's Game Contest
Techstar wrote:
Looks good, making a (probably completely wrong) deduction, players gain a number each turn that corresponds to a row number, a critter in that row can then move?


Thanks!

Yep you were right, wrong deduction



Players on a turn move a critter diagonally forward the number of spaces equal to the row number or they may move a critter orthogonally forward one space.

Multiple jumps diagonally forward over other critters is also allowed.

Players may not cross the Center White Line or move a critter off the board

Once a critter crosses the finish line, it is removed from the board.


I'll post the finished rules tonight.


Thanks!
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Peter Gray
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Re: [WIP] Critters Crossing (Ideas Phase/Initial Playtesting) -- 2016 Children's Game Contest
Ooh, that sounds even better, looking forward to giving this a go.
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Rey Alicea
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Re: [WIP] Critters Crossing (Ideas Phase/Initial Playtesting) -- 2016 Children's Game Contest
Techstar wrote:
Ooh, that sounds even better, looking forward to giving this a go.



You can give it a go now until I post the PNP PDF.

You would need 2 Chess/Checkers boards, masking tape, and 20 cubes in 4 colors
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Rey Alicea
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Re: [WIP] Critters Crossing (Ideas Phase/Initial Playtesting) -- 2016 Children's Game Contest
reyalicea wrote:
Techstar wrote:
Ooh, that sounds even better, looking forward to giving this a go.



You can give it a go now until I post the PNP PDF.

You would need 2 Chess/Checkers boards, masking tape, and 20 cubes in 4 colors




After the changes I made in the rules, you are going to need sigle sided tiles instead of cubes. Sorry.
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Chris Hansen
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Tastes of Siege is my new game for the Children's Game Design Contest
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Re: [WIP] Critters Crossing (Ideas Phase/Initial Playtesting) -- 2016 Children's Game Contest
Welcome to the contest! The artwork looks really nice!
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Rey Alicea
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Re: [WIP] Critters Crossing (Ideas Phase/Initial Playtesting) -- 2016 Children's Game Contest
chansen2794 wrote:
Welcome to the contest! The artwork looks really nice!


Thank you Chris, glad to be here!

It has been a while since I entered a contest here on BGG.

I can't take credit for the artwork on this one, it's clipart.
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Peter Gray
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Re: [WIP] Critters Crossing (Ideas Phase/Initial Playtesting) -- 2016 Children's Game Contest
This is a very interesting and appealing game - I have had a quick look through the rules and tried to approach this from a child's perspective, or maybe that of a willing but inexperienced babysitter who's been roped into playing with a child - as an adult gamer I was able to fill in most gaps I was unsure of, but there are a couple of things I think are a bit unclear -

I wasn't too sure which direction around the board the race is to progress, I assume clockwise, but I think this needs clarifying both in the rules and possibly on the board itself. I would suggest perhaps having a checkered pattern on the finish line and a couple of arrows indicating direction.

Could you put boxes or dots on the spaces where players start and indicate these as player 1, player 2 etc? I think I've got this clear from the rules but I think your description needed a bit more clarification. Alternatively a label on your start places picture in the rules showing which player lane is which would help.

Does player 1 use the row furthest down from the centre line even in a 3 player game? This was my first thought when reading this section. Your description is ok but a picture making it absolutely clear is always a help.

I think an example showing the first few moves of a game, then a couple of later positions may help explain play. I get the impression that getting started in the race is going to be the key thing, and will be the bit that could lead to the most dispute to begin with among newer players.

my overall feel for the rules at first glance is that they are perhaps aimed a little high - newer, less experienced gamers or less confident players may fell a little unsure about them at first.

I hope this helps - none of these comments are intended to be seen as criticisms - my own efforts are far from being as child friendly as I would like at the moment (people in glass houses etc), and rules writing is something I need to get better at - reading and critiquing other's is always easier.
I intend giving this a go at the weekend with my eldest (she's 7 next weekend) and I think she'll love it. I'll feedback more after that.



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Rey Alicea
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Re: [WIP] Critters Crossing (Ideas Phase/Initial Playtesting) -- 2016 Children's Game Contest
Techstar wrote:
This is a very interesting and appealing game - I have had a quick look through the rules and tried to approach this from a child's perspective, or maybe that of a willing but inexperienced babysitter who's been roped into playing with a child - as an adult gamer I was able to fill in most gaps I was unsure of, but there are a couple of things I think are a bit unclear -

I wasn't too sure which direction around the board the race is to progress, I assume clockwise, but I think this needs clarifying both in the rules and possibly on the board itself. I would suggest perhaps having a checkered pattern on the finish line and a couple of arrows indicating direction.

Could you put boxes or dots on the spaces where players start and indicate these as player 1, player 2 etc? I think I've got this clear from the rules but I think your description needed a bit more clarification. Alternatively a label on your start places picture in the rules showing which player lane is which would help.

Does player 1 use the row furthest down from the centre line even in a 3 player game? This was my first thought when reading this section. Your description is ok but a picture making it absolutely clear is always a help.

I think an example showing the first few moves of a game, then a couple of later positions may help explain play. I get the impression that getting started in the race is going to be the key thing, and will be the bit that could lead to the most dispute to begin with among newer players.

my overall feel for the rules at first glance is that they are perhaps aimed a little high - newer, less experienced gamers or less confident players may fell a little unsure about them at first.

I hope this helps - none of these comments are intended to be seen as criticisms - my own efforts are far from being as child friendly as I would like at the moment (people in glass houses etc), and rules writing is something I need to get better at - reading and critiquing other's is always easier.
I intend giving this a go at the weekend with my eldest (she's 7 next weekend) and I think she'll love it. I'll feedback more after that.






Thank you!!

I had a feeling the rules weren't child friendly enough. I'm going to implement your suggestions right away.

Thanks again!
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Rey Alicea
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Re: [WIP] Critters Crossing (Ideas Phase/Initial Playtesting) -- 2016 Children's Game Contest
I've updated the rules again, let me know what you think. Thanks
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Peter Gray
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Re: [WIP] Critters Crossing (Ideas Phase/Initial Playtesting) -- 2016 Children's Game Contest
This really helps,they look great.

One question which didn't occur to me last time is, in a two player game which two animal sets do players get? 1&3 and 2&4 or some other system. I ask because I'm not sure what combination gives the most level playing field, in a straight race the innermost and outermost lanes roughly equate to the two middle lanes giving the most minimal difference in hands of winning. With this game I'm less sure if this will be the case due to he different combinations for movement.

I confess I'm not even sure how I'd go about working it out so you may want to let people decide for themselves what they feel happiest with.

I'm really looking forward to giving this one a try now.
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Rey Alicea
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Re: [WIP] Critters Crossing (Ideas Phase/Initial Playtesting) -- 2016 Children's Game Contest
Techstar wrote:
This really helps,they look great.

One question which didn't occur to me last time is, in a two player game which two animal sets do players get? 1&3 and 2&4 or some other system. I ask because I'm not sure what combination gives the most level playing field, in a straight race the innermost and outermost lanes roughly equate to the two middle lanes giving the most minimal difference in hands of winning. With this game I'm less sure if this will be the case due to he different combinations for movement.

I confess I'm not even sure how I'd go about working it out so you may want to let people decide for themselves what they feel happiest with.

I'm really looking forward to giving this one a try now.


Thanks Peter!

My hunch is that Player 1 should get 1-2 and Player 2 Gets 3-4

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Peter Gray
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Re: [WIP] Critters Crossing (Ideas Phase/Initial Playtesting) -- 2016 Children's Game Contest
i'll give that a try then.
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Rey Alicea
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Re: [WIP] Critters Crossing (Ideas Phase/Initial Playtesting) -- 2016 Children's Game Contest


This is the prototype board I've been using. Played a couple of games with my girls, they both enjoyed the race.
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Laura "lelo" D. Arrowsmith Deddens Gerard
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It seams to me that the staggered start handicaps the player in the lower positions and helps the players in the higher positions.

On an oval track field, the inside lanes start back further than the outside lanes (the opposite of what you have). This way, everyone has to run the same distance. Even when you aren't assigned lanes the start line is diagonal so that racers starting on the outside are further forward to make up for the extra distance they have to run to get over to the inside track.
 
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Rey Alicea
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rainbowrose wrote:
It seams to me that the staggered start handicaps the player in the lower positions and helps the players in the higher positions.

On an oval track field, the inside lanes start back further than the outside lanes (the opposite of what you have). This way, everyone has to run the same distance. Even when you aren't assigned lanes the start line is diagonal so that racers starting on the outside are further forward to make up for the extra distance they have to run to get over to the inside track.


My reasoning for staggering the lineups in reverse are to mitigate any first person advantage. In practice, it appears to work in this game.

In a game I played with my daughters, I was the first player, my daughters were second and third. My daughter who played second came in first and I came in second.

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Laura "lelo" D. Arrowsmith Deddens Gerard
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reyalicea wrote:
rainbowrose wrote:
It seams to me that the staggered start handicaps the player in the lower positions and helps the players in the higher positions.

On an oval track field, the inside lanes start back further than the outside lanes (the opposite of what you have). This way, everyone has to run the same distance. Even when you aren't assigned lanes the start line is diagonal so that racers starting on the outside are further forward to make up for the extra distance they have to run to get over to the inside track.


My reasoning for staggering the lineups in reverse are to mitigate any first person advantage. In practice, it appears to work in this game.

In a game I played with my daughters, I was the first player, my daughters were second and third. My daughter who played second came in first and I came in second.


Maybe reverse the stagger and the player order. Like this

1 1 1 1
2 2 2 2
3 3 3 3
4 4 4 4

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Rey Alicea
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rainbowrose wrote:
reyalicea wrote:
rainbowrose wrote:
It seams to me that the staggered start handicaps the player in the lower positions and helps the players in the higher positions.

On an oval track field, the inside lanes start back further than the outside lanes (the opposite of what you have). This way, everyone has to run the same distance. Even when you aren't assigned lanes the start line is diagonal so that racers starting on the outside are further forward to make up for the extra distance they have to run to get over to the inside track.


My reasoning for staggering the lineups in reverse are to mitigate any first person advantage. In practice, it appears to work in this game.

In a game I played with my daughters, I was the first player, my daughters were second and third. My daughter who played second came in first and I came in second.


Maybe reverse the stagger and the player order. Like this

1 1 1 1
2 2 2 2
3 3 3 3
4 4 4 4




Oh, ok now I see what you are saying, this may work! I'll test this out with the girls in the next 3 days and report back here.

 
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Charles Ward
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I'm about to play your game. And in order to make it more appealing I redesigned the board and the pieces, and made the starting positions as suggested in the comments. I'm also capping it at 3 players. Seems like 3 would be hectic enough. I think it would be a really good team game for 6 players if each player operated 2 pieces of the same colour (max 3 colours/teams). Play would be 1 turn per team, and they decided as a team which pieces to move, the owner of the piece actually doing the moving. Something like that.

I will play without the Bonus Move rule for now, and add it later if the game asks for it.




I had a question. If you cant move because your destination is blocked can you still move less that the required number of spaces?

Cheers
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Laura "lelo" D. Arrowsmith Deddens Gerard
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Another thought to make it more like the track used in track&field competitions such as the Olympics, the runners should be going counter clockwise.

To make the numbers on the board readable to everyone no matter the orientation perhaps pips like on dice or dominoes would be better suited than the digits. It's so hard to read the numbers upside down.

Edit: For the team idea, you might want to study up on how team competitions work in reality: http://track.isport.com/track-guides/how-to-keep-score-at-a-...
I realize that in a game, you can't always let the theme decide everything but it's a place to start.
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Rey Alicea
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ex1st wrote:
I'm about to play your game. And in order to make it more appealing I redesigned the board and the pieces, and made the starting positions as suggested in the comments. I'm also capping it at 3 players. Seems like 3 would be hectic enough. I think it would be a really good team game for 6 players if each player operated 2 pieces of the same colour (max 3 colours/teams). Play would be 1 turn per team, and they decided as a team which pieces to move, the owner of the piece actually doing the moving. Something like that.

I will play without the Bonus Move rule for now, and add it later if the game asks for it.




I had a question. If you cant move because your destination is blocked can you still move less that the required number of spaces?

Cheers



Wow! Love the redesign, looks awesome!

Quote:
If you cant move because your destination is blocked can you still move less that the required number of spaces?


Yes, as long as you don't change direction.

Quote:
I will play without the Bonus Move rule for now, and add it later if the game asks for it.


When you do use it you will find it propels the game

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Charles Ward
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Feedback after playing the game

The game got underway quickly. I player with my mom and son (3.5 years old). They both liked it and my son said it was too long five turns in! He left the game for us to finish. I won, and my son came second (I played for him to my advantage - of course), mom last. It was close for 2nd and 3rd place.

I took out some of the rules and still found it a bit thinky, which I like.
I love the diagonal movement. I was not sure about the other way to move. If you are going round a corner, can you go up/down as well as left/right?
That was my only question.

My other suggestion was to have 3 cars... I mean critters , not 4.

Loved the game. Hope to get some more plays with other kids in the new year. Thanks for a great design!

reyalicea wrote:
Quote:
If you cant move because your destination is blocked can you still move less that the required number of spaces?

Yes, as long as you don't change direction.

You can? Well, that changes a lot of things.

reyalicea wrote:
Wow! Love the redesign, looks awesome!

I would be happy to work on it more and even incorporate the rules so that it is a one page game... if the theme is racing cars or construction vehicles.
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Rey Alicea
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ex1st wrote:
Feedback after playing the game

The game got underway quickly. I player with my mom and son (3.5 years old). They both liked it and my son said it was too long five turns in! He left the game for us to finish. I won, and my son came second (I played for him to my advantage - of course), mom last. It was close for 2nd and 3rd place.

I took out some of the rules and still found it a bit thinky, which I like.
I love the diagonal movement. I was not sure about the other way to move. If you are going round a corner, can you go up/down as well as left/right?
That was my only question.

My other suggestion was to have 3 cars... I mean critters , not 4.

Loved the game. Hope to get some more plays with other kids in the new year. Thanks for a great design!

reyalicea wrote:
Quote:
If you cant move because your destination is blocked can you still move less that the required number of spaces?

Yes, as long as you don't change direction.

You can? Well, that changes a lot of things.

reyalicea wrote:
Wow! Love the redesign, looks awesome!

I would be happy to work on it more and even incorporate the rules so that it is a one page game... if the theme is racing cars or construction vehicles.




Thank you so much!

Really happy you and your family enjoyed the game!


I've taken all the suggestions in this thread and made a few changes, unfortunately, I won't be able to incorporate them until after the contest.

1) Name change - Speed Demons!
2) Numbers along the rows are now pip values
3) The 3 spaces at each corner of the board have been removed, you never seem to land in the corner during play, this also has the added benefit of making the board look more like an actual track.
4) Movement around the bends will be diagonally by row number and one step column wise. Movement along the straightaways and bonus moves will stay the same.
5) 3 cars per player instead of 4
6) I've incorporated your board design cues if you don't mind of course.



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Laura "lelo" D. Arrowsmith Deddens Gerard
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Looks great. Love that it's oval now. I still think it should be counterclockwise. Not loving the new theme but I'm a girl.

Edit: looking at it more ... Did you intend for it not to be symmetrical? Also, do the rules allow you to move into the squares with pips on them?
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