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Subject: Question about first player(2,3 age) rss

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No gyeongmin
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Gyeyanggu
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If the military is tied, who is the first player in the 2nd and 3rd age?

It seems that many people misunderstand, including the game designer bruno.
So it's very confusing.

Below is a description of the game designer.
bruno cathala "Yes. This is exactly the reason why this player decides who goes first on next âge."

right.... he said ""decide""

But the official rule book is different. The last player in the last age becomes the first player immediately.

read below's rule book.
"In a situation where the pawn is in the middle of the board, the player who begins the next Age is the last active player (meaning whoever played the last card of the previous Age)."

In my opinion, he does not decide who the first player will be.
Is my opinion correct?
 
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Conan Meriadoc
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west8999 wrote:
In my opinion, he does not decide who the first player will be.
Is my opinion correct?


No. Based on a strict reading of the rulebook you'd be correct, but it was already clarified by the designers that the last active player get to choose who plays first.
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Nándor Gáspár
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If I'm not mistaken they updated the rulebook too. So the newer versions say there is a decision.

UPDATE: see page 11 here: http://www.7wondersduel.com/files/rules/7-Wonders-Duel-Rules...

UPDATE2: the link above doesn't contain the updated rules, but Repos mentioned that the new reprint will contain the corrected rules.
See here: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/22720568#22720568
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No gyeongmin
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Dystopian wrote:
west8999 wrote:
In my opinion, he does not decide who the first player will be.
Is my opinion correct?


No. Based on a strict reading of the rulebook you'd be correct, but it was already clarified by the designers that the last active player get to choose who plays first.


Is it possible that the designer might be confused?
 
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No gyeongmin
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Ydnad wrote:
If I'm not mistaken they updated the rulebook too. So the newer versions say there is a decision.

UPDATE: see page 11 here: http://www.7wondersduel.com/files/rules/7-Wonders-Duel-Rules...



I am really grateful for the good information.
I think it will help a lot to get rid of my confusion.
But when I read the link, the rulebook seems to be the old version. I want to know the link to the new version.

Regardless of this, of course I will play as the designer once said. From a game balance point of view, it seems to have a choice.

But I want to know it perfectly. Therefore, I would like to hear more from other geek members. Have a nice day.
 
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Bill Eldard
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My rulebook is quite clear.

"The player with the weakest military chooses which player begins the next Age. A player has a weaker military if the Conflict pawn is on their side of the board. . . "

The player with the weaker player chooses to go first or second.

". . . In a situation where the pawn is in the middle of the board, the player who begins the next Age is the last active player (meaning whoever played the last card of the previous Age)."

The player who built the last card of the previous Age, or traded it for cash, or used it to construct a wonder, is the first player of the next Age. This player does not have a choice in this circumstance.
 
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Baker Odom
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Eldard wrote:
My rulebook is quite clear.

"The player with the weakest military chooses which player begins the next Age. A player has a weaker military if the Conflict pawn is on their side of the board. . . "

The player with the weaker player chooses to go first or second.

". . . In a situation where the pawn is in the middle of the board, the player who begins the next Age is the last active player (meaning whoever played the last card of the previous Age)."

The player who built the last card of the previous Age, or traded it for cash, or used it to construct a wonder, is the first player of the next Age. This player does not have a choice in this circumstance.


Yes but as has already been mentioned the rulebook has been updated to reflect the new rule. http://www.7wondersduel.com/files/rules/7-Wonders-Duel-Rules...

That's a link to a PDF of the official rulebook provided by the publisher. The rule is clearly now the weakest military chooses who goes first. In a tie the last active player chooses.
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Nándor Gáspár
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west8999 wrote:
But when I read the link, the rulebook seems to be the old version. I want to know the link to the new version.

Regardless of this, of course I will play as the designer once said. From a game balance point of view, it seems to have a choice.

But I want to know it perfectly. Therefore, I would like to hear more from other geek members. Have a nice day.


Please excuse me the misleading link. (I will edit my post)
My source of information was this:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/22720568#22720568

It seems that the online rules wasn't updated yet. (at least I couldn't find the correct one)
 
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No gyeongmin
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very cleared. thanks for your mention. see you next time.
 
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Baker Odom
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Ydnad wrote:
west8999 wrote:
But when I read the link, the rulebook seems to be the old version. I want to know the link to the new version.

Regardless of this, of course I will play as the designer once said. From a game balance point of view, it seems to have a choice.

But I want to know it perfectly. Therefore, I would like to hear more from other geek members. Have a nice day.


Please excuse me the misleading link. (I will edit my post)
My source of information was this:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/22720568#22720568

It seems that the online rules wasn't updated yet. (at least I couldn't find the correct one)


I'm confused. Aren't we saying the updated rules should give the player with the weakest military (or in the case of a tie the last one to make a move) the choice as to who goes first?

When I click that link and look at pg 11 it clearly states the player chooses.
 
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Kevin Duke
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I share your confusion.

I'm reading "weaker" in military can choose, but if military tied, the "the last" of the previous age must be first.
 
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Nándor Gáspár
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Let's clarify it then.
The updated rules should look like this:

The player with the weakest military chooses which player begins the next Age.
A player has a weaker military if the Conflict pawn is on their side of the board.
In a situation where the pawn is in the middle of the board, the player who chooses which player begins the next Age is the last active player (meaning whoever played the last card of the previous Age).
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Jordan Garcia
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I just got this game last week, and my rule book AND help sheet say that, in case of a tie in military, the last active player CHOOSES who goes first.
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No gyeongmin
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kduke wrote:
I share your confusion.

I'm reading "weaker" in military can choose, but if military tied, the "the last" of the previous age must be first.


right. I was not the only one to think like this. Furthermore, Korean board gamers are still playing an error because they do not have any information. Most of them are active only in the Korean community, boardlife.co.kr, so it is hard to know the new rules
 
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No gyeongmin
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thebaker1983 wrote:
Ydnad wrote:
west8999 wrote:
But when I read the link, the rulebook seems to be the old version. I want to know the link to the new version.

Regardless of this, of course I will play as the designer once said. From a game balance point of view, it seems to have a choice.

But I want to know it perfectly. Therefore, I would like to hear more from other geek members. Have a nice day.


Please excuse me the misleading link. (I will edit my post)
My source of information was this:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/22720568#22720568

It seems that the online rules wasn't updated yet. (at least I couldn't find the correct one)


I'm confused. Aren't we saying the updated rules should give the player with the weakest military (or in the case of a tie the last one to make a move) the choice as to who goes first?

When I click that link and look at pg 11 it clearly states the player chooses.


right. The link seems to have been modified.
 
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No gyeongmin
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Thank you for letting me know. Korean board gamers have not got any new information like geek members because there are so many people who can not speak English. I am going to spread the fact that I learned because of you to Korea 7 wonders duel users
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No gyeongmin
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viced92 wrote:
I just got this game last week, and my rule book AND help sheet say that, in case of a tie in military, the last active player CHOOSES who goes first.


okay. I just got this game 3 last weeks at coolstuff, but there wasn't help sheet. In my english rule book, I read that it was written incorrectly.. look at picture.

 
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Michael Hastriter
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So strategy wise, to get an extra turn, take the last card? I guess that is fair, because the last card is normally not that great. (Without extra turn wonders, The player that went before you took the better cards)
 
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Michael Hastriter
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Oh also what are the rules if you have a stronger military but, you built an extra turn wonder with the last card of the age? If you do this, then are you guaranteed the extra turn? Or is the extra turn void. What if your military was weaker? Could you get 2 extra turns in the next age? What about Pantheon expansion's 4th pay the God's action? Can that be used as your extra turn just before starting the next age?
 
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Baker Odom
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Red14Blue16 wrote:
Oh also what are the rules if you have a stronger military but, you built an extra turn wonder with the last card of the age? If you do this, then are you guaranteed the extra turn? Or is the extra turn void. What if your military was weaker? Could you get 2 extra turns in the next age? What about Pantheon expansion's 4th pay the God's action? Can that be used as your extra turn just before starting the next age?


Your extra turn does not carry over to the new age.
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Red14Blue16 wrote:
So strategy wise, to get an extra turn, take the last card? I guess that is fair, because the last card is normally not that great. (Without extra turn wonders, The player that went before you took the better cards)


Strategy wise, there are 20 cards in an age, meaning that to take the last card, you would have begun the current age second, so at a disadvantage. That is why you have an advantage beginning the next age.

So, if you want an advantage, you would have to push your current advantage (beginning your current age first) by playing a wonder to get an extra turn anyway.

If you play your wonders trying to get "first pick," then strategy wise you will probably need to waste at least 2 (assuming you began the first age first, to reverse your "fate" of going second the second age, and then to reverse your "fate" of going second the third age again), and then if you don't have a third one (a good opponent will probably prevent this), you're probably not going to be able to influence the draft so that you get that one science or military card in age 3 which enables you to win.

So, strategy wise you'd need to have at least two "extra turn" wonders to go first in age 2 and 3 assuming you already went first age 1 (or just 1 if you went second age 1 because going second age 1 means you go first age 2).

That is assuming nothing happens to military, which is often not the case so the discussion is moot anyway.

P.S. I finally bought the game just a week ago (new restock at local game shop), after playing other people's copies for quite a while, and it came with a manual which says:
Quote:
The player with the weakest military chooses which player begins the next Age.
A player has a weaker military if the Conflict pawn is on their side of the board.
In a situation where the pawn is in the middle of the board, the player that chooses
who begins the next Age is the last active player (meaning whoever played the last card of
the previous Age).


... which is actually interesting because even on the website, the PDF hasn't been updated (yet?).
 
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