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Subject: Is this another FF game that prefers buying multiple boxes of the same? rss

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Jennifer

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I liked Netrunner, but was upset I had to buy two more copies of it just to have 3 of all the cards. Now I am going to sell them all.

I heard you need more than one base set for Lord of The Rings LCG. So I skipped this one even though it sounded great. (After being burnt with the Netrunner.)

Just figured I'd ask before I bought Arkham Horror: The Card Game. I'll probably skip it if it's like the two I just mentioned.

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Antonia
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Yes, you already need two core boxes to not argue over the neutral cards with two players.
The problem gets worse at a higher player count.
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Wiedewiet
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In a weird way it's actually quite impressive how you weren't able to figure this out while participating on these forums
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MC Shudde M'ell
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boardgamegeekess wrote:
I liked Netrunner, but was upset I had to buy two more copies of it just to have 3 of all the cards. Now I am going to sell them all.

I heard you need more than one base set for Lord of The Rings LCG. So I skipped this one even though it sounded great. (After being burnt with the Netrunner.)

Just figured I'd ask before I bought Arkham Horror: The Card Game. I'll probably skip it if it's like the two I just mentioned.



Depends on what you mean by "need". The main difference between Netrunner and the other two is that Netrunner is competitive, so you "need" to play at the same level as your fellow players. Arkham Horror is a full game when played at Easy, and a full game when you "lose" more than half the time (much more thematically appropriate for Arkham than Middle-Earth).

For myself, I bought a core of Lord of the Rings when it first came out, and have no plans to buy a second. I don't plan to buy a second core of Arkham Horror either. I also like to play things that sound great, but I have a visceral aversion to buying a duplicate like that.
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Scott Hill
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It depends.

Many many people on these forums will tell you that you absolutely must have two copies of the core set, even if you're only going to play solo.

But they are wrong. 2 cores is not a necessity, it is a preference.

The game was designed and tested to played with upto 2 players using just one core set, and upto 4 players using 2 core sets.

What buying a two core sets achieves when playing solo or two player (or four core sets with playing with three or four players), is two fold:

1. Players can include the maximum (two copies) of any card in their deck, without resorting to proxying.

2. You gain the freedom to play with any pairing of investigators in 2-player, without resorting to extensive proxying.

So, if either of those factors are important, and proxying anathemic, to you, then, yes, two, or more, core sets are recommended.

Otherwise, just buy one and enjoy a still fantastic game the way it was designed and play tested.

And, future expansions will all contain two of every player card, so this issue will quickly become moot.
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boardgamegeekess wrote:
I liked Netrunner, but was upset I had to buy two more copies of it just to have 3 of all the cards. Now I am going to sell them all.

I heard you need more than one base set for Lord of The Rings LCG. So I skipped this one even though it sounded great. (After being burnt with the Netrunner.)

Just figured I'd ask before I bought Arkham Horror: The Card Game. I'll probably skip it if it's like the two I just mentioned.



Search on the forums next time before posting.
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Le Roux Van Der Vyver
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Hey Jennnifer,

You don't NEED 2 boxes but looking around the forums you might have a bad time without it.
Only some of the investigators are good to Solo with, but if you want to play 2 player there are set combinations you have to use, otherwise your classes can overlap and you can't deck build optimally.

Based on the fact that you committed to buying more of Netrunner it seems like you have some interest in deckbuilding or at least recognize the importance of options. Only 1 Core will not leave you with a lot of options.

A lot of people will tell you otherwise, and you will probably find those same people telling someone on a review or post that the reason they are not enjoying the game is because they only have 1 core. I personally have chosen to forego the game due to the distribution model in place.

You can see all the cards in the base box at this website and see if you like the deck combinations possible with 1 box.
http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/arkhamhorror/arkham-horr...
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boardgamegeekess wrote:

I heard you need more than one base set for Lord of The Rings LCG. So I skipped this one even though it sounded great. (After being burnt with the Netrunner.)

Just figured I'd ask before I bought Arkham Horror: The Card Game. I'll probably skip it if it's like the two I just mentioned.



As others have said Arkham is fine with just one core as long as you have two or fewer players and aren't looking for full custom decks -- and as expansions come out there will be more choices that may render even the need for "optimal" moot.

LotR LCG is the same way -- for solo and two player, one core is enough, especially with all of the expansion options. Yes, there will be a few cards you don't have three of, but with all of the choices available you seldom need three.

These aren't competitive games, after all.
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Brian C
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I think I'm actually done with the LCG model. This topic isn't going away, nor should it, and it just constantly reminds me of how dirty this whole thing is.

And to be perfectly honest, there isn't enough depth there anyways, until you've spent hundreds of dollars. Not worth it, if I have to support a shady business model in the meantime.

Bring us a complete game in that LCG core game box, and I will buy into all of your expansion content.

Until then I'm out.
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Eric Martin
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I like being able to buy one Core Set for $30.00 and then decide on my own if I want to pay for more content, or play with just one box. I'm sure if they put the maximum that I might need into one box I might balk at the $100 price right from the start.

For the record, I bought one Core Set, played and enjoyed it, bought a second one, and am currently enjoying the game even more. I can't imagine how miserable it would be if I had decided to wait for the perfect Core Set. I'd still be playing Monopoly, I guess.

This is not intended to offend anyone, just to answer the initial question with a personal example.
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Pauli Vinni
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Try pathfinder adventures or The Thunderstone Numenera... or maybe Shadowrun Crosfire. They all Are more or less whole experience in one package.

I personally like these Lcg better, but lukily to others, there Are good alternatives!
 
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I'm hesitant to comment on the old 'LCG core set business model thingy' matter, only because I'm not certain anything I say wouldn't have been mentioned before several times and better said. However, I've only recently started posting on BGG in earnest, so I guess I've yet to put my own feelings down on record.

My biggest, perhaps only, problem with the way FFG for example handles core sets is that I am unable to shake a sense of wastefulness when I purchase a second, third copy and get a whoooole bunch of cards that I don't want. The second copy of core set Netrunner stung. Had I gone into a third (and I wanted to, I wanted those third copies of those particular cards), I'd have really resented... something. FFG? Myself? Dunno, but I would not have liked it. I have no problem with the core set being a starter kit of sorts, a taste of the game, and the contents being numbered such that it manages to both give a 'full' experience yet also remain an attractive price. I get the reason.

There's a solution to the core-set-not-having-all-the-cards-I-want issue and the core-set-having-cards-I-do-not-need-multiples-of issue, and I dearly wish FFG would do it: a 'Completionist' booster box that is released alongside the core set, with the cards people are going to want. For Netrunner, a box with the 1-ofs and 2-ofs which were missing from that core card set. For AHLCG, a box with another 50 class cards and 10 neutral skill cards. Throw a healthy premium on the asking price if necessary, I don't care. FFG could charge whatever makes financial sense to them; I'd just personally feel much, much better buying a box like that which aims to 'fills in the gaps' rather than another entire Core Set that has duplicate tokens, reference cards, agendas and acts, rulebooks, etc etc.

Where does all that leave me with the reality of the business model then? I don't know. I do know that if I do go in for a second core, I'm going to do so begrudgingly, without that happy spring in my step which a new board game purchase usually brings with it.
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Logistics wouldnt support it but man, Id love to see something like a 3-4 player expansion on release. Just the stuff youd need to get the cards youd need without all the waste. But packaging, printing, shipping etc would preclude that. Better return on just selling more cores I guess.
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Aaron White
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I am currently a one box man because I bought this for solo. If you are playing with two or more people and want 100% freedom when building a deck for all player status then you need two sets. But if you are happy to experience the game and not stress about building crazy deck combinations then Arkham LCG is good. Also keep in mind expansions will go on forever, so there will be more cards over time to increase your deck building options.
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Raf Cordero
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I don't mind the 2 copies for this game. Everyone I know who has played once has instantly wanted to buy a 2nd. Hell, I'm considering a third so I can keep more decks built and have separate decks for different campaigns. Probably won't do it, but I thought about it.

I do with FFG had done Core Set A and Core Set B (like Pandemic: Legacy or the 2 Star Wars Destiny starter packs). All the same character cards, but two different campaigns.
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Daniel Carew
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Noaloha wrote:
I'm hesitant to comment on the old 'LCG core set business model thingy' matter, only because I'm not certain anything I say wouldn't have been mentioned before several times and better said. However, I've only recently started posting on BGG in earnest, so I guess I've yet to put my own feelings down on record.

My biggest, perhaps only, problem with the way FFG for example handles core sets is that I am unable to shake a sense of wastefulness when I purchase a second, third copy and get a whoooole bunch of cards that I don't want. The second copy of core set Netrunner stung. Had I gone into a third (and I wanted to, I wanted those third copies of those particular cards), I'd have really resented... something. FFG? Myself? Dunno, but I would not have liked it. I have no problem with the core set being a starter kit of sorts, a taste of the game, and the contents being numbered such that it manages to both give a 'full' experience yet also remain an attractive price. I get the reason.

There's a solution to the core-set-not-having-all-the-cards-I-want issue and the core-set-having-cards-I-do-not-need-multiples-of issue, and I dearly wish FFG would do it: a 'Completionist' booster box that is released alongside the core set, with the cards people are going to want. For Netrunner, a box with the 1-ofs and 2-ofs which were missing from that core card set. For AHLCG, a box with another 50 class cards and 10 neutral skill cards. Throw a healthy premium on the asking price if necessary, I don't care. FFG could charge whatever makes financial sense to them; I'd just personally feel much, much better buying a box like that which aims to 'fills in the gaps' rather than another entire Core Set that has duplicate tokens, reference cards, agendas and acts, rulebooks, etc etc.

Where does all that leave me with the reality of the business model then? I don't know. I do know that if I do go in for a second core, I'm going to do so begrudgingly, without that happy spring in my step which a new board game purchase usually brings with it.


This one at least looks to be less wasteful. It seems like you get one copy of the majority of the cards, so unlike say, Netrunner, where you end up with near ridiculous numbers of useless cards, buying a second Core here will give you one full set of all the non neutral cards, and possibly a few extra sets of neutrals, which should be fine. The tokens can be annoying, but on the other hand, you may eventually find you need them.

This does mean that the set is even "worse" about getting all you may want in the first set, but at least being designed around players who want a more competitive experience buying two does mean less stuff ends in the recycle bin.
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Jennifer

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Thanks for all the kind replies.
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Jennifer

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Noaloha wrote:

There's a solution to the core-set-not-having-all-the-cards-I-want issue and the core-set-having-cards-I-do-not-need-multiples-of issue, and I dearly wish FFG would do it: a 'Completionist' booster box that is released alongside the core set, with the cards people are going to want.


This is how I felt as well. Why didn't they just come out with a simple completion deck to fill out the core set. Why have to spend $100 on three core sets to just have 3 of each card, when it's like under what, 100 extra cards total that you need.

That could of been packaged in a box for $19.99 and I would of been content. Now I am just hesitant to buy things from them, so that's why I asked here about this game. I should of done some searching first I know, but I just posted it. At least this game isn't as wasteful buying a second core set, as mentioned above in posts, thanks.

Thanks again everyone for all the replies.
 
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Jennifer

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Exo Desta wrote:


Bring us a complete game in that LCG core game box, and I will buy into all of your expansion content.

Until then I'm out.


This is how I feel as well. Have a complete game in the core, then I'll be so happy and not worried about money and glady buy monthly expansion packs. But when having to fork out $60-100 all up front.. it depresses me, and I just don't want to invest in the game at all.

I would of continued buying expansion packs for Netrunner. I would of bought Lord of the Rings card game etc.. It's just that initial investment that scares me.

I hope no one is offended by me sharing my viewpoint. Please don't take it personally.
 
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Jennifer

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leroux13 wrote:
I personally have chosen to forego the game due to the distribution model in place.


Something tells me FF would make more money if they just made the core set a complete game. Many more monthly "subscriptions" to their expansions.
 
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Scott Hill
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The core set is a 'complete game'.

You are not required to buy a second copy, it is personal choice.
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Bojan Prakljacic
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How to define the complete game in this case? First campaign scenario is not a complete game, it is like a pilot episode of a TV series. If you like it, stay tune for more...

Next on Dunwich Horror:

''I told you something isn't right with that town, I warned you all!''

''Professor Armitage, I presume?''

''This is something we need to discuss, you can't just run on his errands like that!''

''This book, where did you said you found it?''

''Wraaaaaaaaagghhh!''

On HBO this week.
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Jennifer

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This game looks too good to pass up. I love the story driven element of the game.

I'll start with the one box, and try to stick with just one box. I really like the Cthulhu setting. I play a lot of Elder Sign on my iPad -- have had fun with that.

This game will probably be the only LCG I invest in though, because I can't afford monthly subscriptions to many LCG's.

I plan on playing this mostly solo anyways.. hope the single box will do me fine. I guess I could get another box down the road sometime in the near future (say in a few months), whenever I can afford it.

I just got burnt so bad with the Netrunner, it's kind of made me afraid to buy any more FF games. But like many of you have said, this game doesn't have the same issues that Netrunner had. e.g. it's co-operative and not as wasteful. And you don't need to buy 2 extra core sets at least.

Thanks for all the feedback.
 
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Exo Desta wrote:
Not worth it, if I have to support a shady business model in the meantime.

Bring us a complete game in that LCG core game box, and I will buy into all of your expansion content.


If this is your definition of shady, and you avoid anything at this or a higher level, then you're not going to be buying much of anything. They are 100% upfront not only about what's in the box, but also why they've made this decision. You know exactly what you're getting, and it's more than in line with comparable product.

You can disagree with the model, but calling it shady is too much.
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Brian C
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Idaho11 wrote:
Exo Desta wrote:
Not worth it, if I have to support a shady business model in the meantime.

Bring us a complete game in that LCG core game box, and I will buy into all of your expansion content.


If this is your definition of shady, and you avoid anything at this or a higher level, then you're not going to be buying much of anything. They are 100% upfront not only about what's in the box, but also why they've made this decision. You know exactly what you're getting, and it's more than in line with comparable product.

You can disagree with the model, but calling it shady is too much.

Would you agree that it's more intuitive to have every card that you can use from the base set already in the base set, opposed to putting it to the customer this way: "Sure you can use more copies of these cards to customize your deck (which is the very reason many of you are buying this game, being that it's a deck constructer).. but you will have to buy extra copies of the game to do so."

That's a fair take on the situation, yes? That it's more intuitive to just sell a complete game.

But they go out of their way to sell an incomplete one, and with what other intention but money? How isn't that the very definition of shady.
 
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