$35.00
Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
28 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: Income growth inequality rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Steve Cates
United States
Visalia
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Looks like US and the West's lower and middle class (which are the top 20% of the world) are getting the shaft, but it's not just the 1% that's giving them the shaft it's the Asian middle class. Looks like trade deals are important. Harvard Business Review.
1 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grand Admiral Thrawn
United States
New Jersey
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Tip for good topic.

The chart is a bit confusing, where would, say, someone making $50,000 salary in the US fall?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grand Admiral Thrawn
United States
New Jersey
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
There's tons of articles in The Economist on this trend. I'll see if I can find one, some are behind a paywall.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
einsteinidahosu wrote:
Tip for good topic.

The chart is a bit confusing, where would, say, someone making $50,000 salary in the US fall?


The chart is intentionally misleading. As are most charts based on percentages.

Entry level white collar jobs in china are still under 40% of U.S. starting wages.

Manufactoring workers earn just under $8000 per year.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/wages-in-manufacturing

And
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-22/china-s-gr...

The chart is an attempt to make u.s. workers losing their jobs angry at poor foreign workers instead of the wealthy people who are dicking them over.

And to distract them from inexorable trends in automation and the move to sub poverty level labor. And even sub poverty level is too expensive to make products for the U.S. market. It's expensive to live here- even if you are poor. Once foreign labor costs fall too low, people here can't afford those goods any more.
9 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Cates
United States
Visalia
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
maxo-texas wrote:
einsteinidahosu wrote:
Tip for good topic.

The chart is a bit confusing, where would, say, someone making $50,000 salary in the US fall?


The chart is intentionally misleading. As are most charts based on percentages.

Entry level white collar jobs in china are still under 40% of U.S. starting wages.

Manufactoring workers earn just under $8000 per year.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/wages-in-manufacturing

And
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-22/china-s-gr...

The chart is an attempt to make u.s. workers losing their jobs angry at poor foreign workers instead of the wealthy people who are dicking them over.

And to distract them from inexorable trends in automation and the move to sub poverty level labor. And even sub poverty level is too expensive to make products for the U.S. market. It's expensive to live here- even if you are poor. Once foreign labor costs fall too low, people here can't afford those goods any more.

It is the wealthy who are sending the jobs overseas. The wealthy are increasing their income at about the same rate as the rest of the world the ones that are getting hit are the 80th percentile.

Black Americans median income has declined 6,000 dollars since it's peak in 2000. Partially under Bush and more so under Obama.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pontifex Maximus
United States
CA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ironcates wrote:
Looks like US and the West's lower and middle class (which are the top 20% of the world) are getting the shaft, but it's not just the 1% that's giving them the shaft it's the Asian middle class. Looks like trade deals are important. Harvard Business Review.


Unless you can show where the Asian middle class managed to influence policy in the US like the 1%, then all you doing is the usual alt right horse shit trying to shift the blame off the 1%. How nice you add a little soupcon of racism to boot.

Right now The Donald is pushing a tax plan that manages to increase taxes on some in the middle class, while giving billions to his 1% buddies. Eliminating the Estate Tax to help make wealth inequality even more.

8 
 Thumb up
0.30
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Cates
United States
Visalia
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Kumitedad wrote:
odd stuff...

I blamed the 1% for the trade deals. Blacks in America are getting hit the hardest. Your hallucination is noted, again.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Cates
United States
Visalia
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
einsteinidahosu wrote:
Tip for good topic.

The chart is a bit confusing, where would, say, someone making $50,000 salary in the US fall?

50,000 is probably the 2-5%

The world bank puts the lowest quartile at <=1025, 2nd quartile 1,026-4,035, 3rd quartile 4,036-12,475 and 4th >12,475.

So US lower class is slightly above the limit of the 4th quartile.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
casey r lowe
United States
butte
Montana
flag msg tools
mb
this chart would look a whole lot different if it wasnt percentages - sure its nice that a lot of the global population is going from poor to slightly less poor but the top 1% is still making out like bandits (60% of millions of dollars you do the math)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kelsey Rinella
United States
Rochester
New York
flag msg tools
I am proud to have opposed those who describe all who oppose them as "Tender Flowers" and "Special Snowflakes".
badge
Check out Stately Play for news and reviews of games worth thinking about.
mbmb
single sentences wrote:
this chart would look a whole lot different if it wasnt percentages - sure its nice that a lot of the global population is going from poor to slightly less poor but the top 1% is still making out like bandits (60% of millions of dollars you do the math)


Anyone else feel like "blackdemographics.com" has a decent chance of hosting some white supremacist content?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
casey r lowe
United States
butte
Montana
flag msg tools
mb
rinelk wrote:
Anyone else feel like "blackdemographics.com" has a decent chance of hosting some white supremacist content?

i came across the site before but didnt notice any of that - the chart in the op ive first seen here though:

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pontifex Maximus
United States
CA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ironcates wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
odd stuff...

I blamed the 1% for the trade deals. Blacks in America are getting hit the hardest. Your hallucination is noted, again.


You talk about the Asian middle class giving our middle class the shaft. Your ignorance is noted again. Quit impressive its ignorance about what you wrote however
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve K
United States
flag msg tools
Kumitedad wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Looks like US and the West's lower and middle class (which are the top 20% of the world) are getting the shaft, but it's not just the 1% that's giving them the shaft it's the Asian middle class. Looks like trade deals are important. Harvard Business Review.


Unless you can show where the Asian middle class managed to influence policy in the US like the 1%, then all you doing is the usual alt right horse shit trying to shift the blame off the 1%. How nice you add a little soupcon of racism to boot.

Right now The Donald is pushing a tax plan that manages to increase taxes on some in the middle class, while giving billions to his 1% buddies. Eliminating the Estate Tax to help make wealth inequality even more.



Not really. Eliminating the estate tax helps the middle class more than the wealthy. The wealthy are extremely good at the kind of arrangements that avoid taxes, and are better able to make sure they have those avenues than people who have to earn their money. Estate taxes actually tend to benefit the 1% allowing them to clean up on the sales of hard earned assets accrued over the life time of wage earners whose survivors must sell them to make taxes. Estate taxes are actually fairly regressive. You crush a lot of ordinary people but never scratch Paris Hilton.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pontifex Maximus
United States
CA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Knewt wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Looks like US and the West's lower and middle class (which are the top 20% of the world) are getting the shaft, but it's not just the 1% that's giving them the shaft it's the Asian middle class. Looks like trade deals are important. Harvard Business Review.


Unless you can show where the Asian middle class managed to influence policy in the US like the 1%, then all you doing is the usual alt right horse shit trying to shift the blame off the 1%. How nice you add a little soupcon of racism to boot.

Right now The Donald is pushing a tax plan that manages to increase taxes on some in the middle class, while giving billions to his 1% buddies. Eliminating the Estate Tax to help make wealth inequality even more.



Not really. Eliminating the estate tax helps the middle class more than the wealthy. The wealthy are extremely good at the kind of arrangements that avoid taxes, and are better able to make sure they have those avenues than people who have to earn their money. Estate taxes actually tend to benefit the 1% allowing them to clean up on the sales of hard earned assets accrued over the life time of wage earners whose survivors must sell them to make taxes. Estate taxes are actually fairly regressive. You crush a lot of ordinary people but never scratch Paris Hilton.


That does manage to ignor the fact that all estates are not subject to the tax up to the amount of 5 million dollars per individual. Which means only the top .2% of estates are even subject to tax.

http://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/estateta...


Meaning you estimation that elimination of this tax helps the middle class to be just so much right wing crap. Thanks from sharing
9 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Stiles
United States
California
flag msg tools
Shaman
mbmbmb
here's a handy guide for various, didn't know the entire thing was online!

http://faculty.neu.edu.cn/cc/zhangyf/papers/How-to-Lie-with-...

Edit: Disaeli aside, the book has been out since 1954!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Cates
United States
Visalia
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
rinelk wrote:
single sentences wrote:
this chart would look a whole lot different if it wasnt percentages - sure its nice that a lot of the global population is going from poor to slightly less poor but the top 1% is still making out like bandits (60% of millions of dollars you do the math)


Anyone else feel like "blackdemographics.com" has a decent chance of hosting some white supremacist content?

It's possibly some sort of hate facts website.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ironcates wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
einsteinidahosu wrote:
Tip for good topic.

The chart is a bit confusing, where would, say, someone making $50,000 salary in the US fall?


The chart is intentionally misleading. As are most charts based on percentages.

Entry level white collar jobs in china are still under 40% of U.S. starting wages.

Manufactoring workers earn just under $8000 per year.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/wages-in-manufacturing

And
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-22/china-s-gr...

The chart is an attempt to make u.s. workers losing their jobs angry at poor foreign workers instead of the wealthy people who are dicking them over.

And to distract them from inexorable trends in automation and the move to sub poverty level labor. And even sub poverty level is too expensive to make products for the U.S. market. It's expensive to live here- even if you are poor. Once foreign labor costs fall too low, people here can't afford those goods any more.

It is the wealthy who are sending the jobs overseas. The wealthy are increasing their income at about the same rate as the rest of the world the ones that are getting hit are the 80th percentile.

Black Americans median income has declined 6,000 dollars since it's peak in 2000. Partially under Bush and more so under Obama.



You have a good point there and it's supported if we go a little bit closer to the present too.



However, with the many examples of racism against blacks in housing, hiring, credit, and even education by non-blacks (of whom whites started the "game" in the dominant position with almost all the resources) the solutions are not simple.

Correcting these issues isn't as simple as throwing money at the problem. That has unintended consequences and incentives.

I think the punitive side is a better approach. Test businesses with fake applicants with equal traits, analyze business, lending, and even law enforcement aggregate behavior for evidence of racism such as disproportionate actions to the population.

Another point to recognize is that almost everyone has stagnated for the last several years...
Median income...
year Whites Blacks
2010 $59,125 $34,876
2011 $58,319 $33,920
2012 $58,781 $34,357
2013 $59,212 $35,157

Blacks are doing better than whites during the same period. Whites made no progress at all from 2010 to 2013 and lost ground in inflation adjusted terms.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Stiles
United States
California
flag msg tools
Shaman
mbmbmb
"Sending the jobs overseas" is somewhat of a red herring - a shortterm issue vs the longterm issue of automation.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Cates
United States
Visalia
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
maxo-texas wrote:

Another point to recognize is that almost everyone has stagnated for the last several years...
Median income...
year Whites Blacks
2010 $59,125 $34,876
2011 $58,319 $33,920
2012 $58,781 $34,357
2013 $59,212 $35,157

Blacks are doing better than whites during the same period. Whites made no progress at all from 2010 to 2013 and lost ground in inflation adjusted terms.
Whites up 100 Blacks up 300 over the four years, but the variation is higher than that. From one year to the next the values are up or down as much as 500.

This longer term chart shows, which conveniently goes up to the time period you start with, that the gap has grown about 8000 in median income and 10,000 in household wealth. I think globalization and open border policy covers more than the last 4 years.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Stuart
United States
Los Alamos
New Mexico
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ironcates wrote:
Black Americans median income has declined 6,000 dollars since it's peak in 2000. Partially under Bush and more so under Obama.


Partially under Congress & the Supreme Court during the Bush years and more so under Congress & the Supreme Court during the Obama years.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve K
United States
flag msg tools
bob_santafe wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Black Americans median income has declined 6,000 dollars since it's peak in 2000. Partially under Bush and more so under Obama.


Partially under Congress & the Supreme Court during the Bush years and more so under Congress & the Supreme Court during the Obama years.


Well, now you see why raising taxes on single mothers is so important.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
non sequitur
United States
Elk Point
South Dakota (SD)
flag msg tools
Mandelbrot/Simurgh hybrid etc etc
badge
I made both of these fractals, hurray!
mbmbmbmbmb
Kumitedad wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
odd stuff...

I blamed the 1% for the trade deals. Blacks in America are getting hit the hardest. Your hallucination is noted, again.


You talk about the Asian middle class giving our middle class the shaft. Your ignorance is noted again. Quit impressive its ignorance about what you wrote however


It means Asian. As in, literally living in Asia.

Stop making "liberals who see racism everywhere" a reality.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Knewt wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Looks like US and the West's lower and middle class (which are the top 20% of the world) are getting the shaft, but it's not just the 1% that's giving them the shaft it's the Asian middle class. Looks like trade deals are important. Harvard Business Review.


Unless you can show where the Asian middle class managed to influence policy in the US like the 1%, then all you doing is the usual alt right horse shit trying to shift the blame off the 1%. How nice you add a little soupcon of racism to boot.

Right now The Donald is pushing a tax plan that manages to increase taxes on some in the middle class, while giving billions to his 1% buddies. Eliminating the Estate Tax to help make wealth inequality even more.



Not really. Eliminating the estate tax helps the middle class more than the wealthy. The wealthy are extremely good at the kind of arrangements that avoid taxes, and are better able to make sure they have those avenues than people who have to earn their money. Estate taxes actually tend to benefit the 1% allowing them to clean up on the sales of hard earned assets accrued over the life time of wage earners whose survivors must sell them to make taxes. Estate taxes are actually fairly regressive. You crush a lot of ordinary people but never scratch Paris Hilton.


You know... it'd be nice if folks occasionally did a quick google before posting horse shit.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/who-pays-estate...
Quote:

Q.

Who pays the estate tax?
A.

The top 10 percent of income earners pays virtually all of the tax, with over one-third paid by the richest 0.1 percent (table 1). Very few farms or family businesses pay the tax.




The Tax Policy Center estimates that some 10,800** individuals dying in 2015 will leave estates large enough to require filing an estate tax return (estates with a gross value under $5.43 million need not file this return in 2015).

And NOTICE FOR OD*'S SAKE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD that the top 5% pays over 90% of of the estate tax.

* A legal scrabble and Upwords word!

** 10,800 out of 324,118,787 citizens. That's 3.332111692741834e-5. A very tiny, vanishingly small, miniscule number of very wealthy people.

---

BUT YOU KNEW THIS. We've discussed who pays the estate tax many times here. That exact fact has almost certainly been fact checked and corrected at least a half dozen times over the last 24 months. The estate tax serves a vital purpose in preventing the development of an oligarchy or new nobility class.

More to the point, unless you have a personal estate WELL over 5.43 million dollars, you are slitting your own throat and BEGGING to pay higher taxes and/or receive lower services (like you know... medicare, social security, disability aid, veterans benefits, military contracts to build useless weapons in your state, etc.)

If you do have an estate well over 5.43 million dollars and you havn't done any estate planning, or you own one of the 30, count'em 30, "small" farms worth over 5.43 million dollars then okay- I get it. At least you are not being irrational.
8 
 Thumb up
0.10
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Michealson
United States
Maple Grove
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Knewt wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Looks like US and the West's lower and middle class (which are the top 20% of the world) are getting the shaft, but it's not just the 1% that's giving them the shaft it's the Asian middle class. Looks like trade deals are important. Harvard Business Review.


Unless you can show where the Asian middle class managed to influence policy in the US like the 1%, then all you doing is the usual alt right horse shit trying to shift the blame off the 1%. How nice you add a little soupcon of racism to boot.

Right now The Donald is pushing a tax plan that manages to increase taxes on some in the middle class, while giving billions to his 1% buddies. Eliminating the Estate Tax to help make wealth inequality even more.



Not really. Eliminating the estate tax helps the middle class more than the wealthy. The wealthy are extremely good at the kind of arrangements that avoid taxes, and are better able to make sure they have those avenues than people who have to earn their money. Estate taxes actually tend to benefit the 1% allowing them to clean up on the sales of hard earned assets accrued over the life time of wage earners whose survivors must sell them to make taxes. Estate taxes are actually fairly regressive. You crush a lot of ordinary people but never scratch Paris Hilton.


Wrong.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/russalanprince/2016/06/01/who-wi...

As for the multitude of family farms and small businesses that are sometimes put forth as the reason for eliminating the estate tax, there will be no material affect. Almost none of these family operations are impacted by the tax today.
...
Today’s very wealthy inheritors are clear winners provided any offsets and the like are minimal – a solid possibility. It’s not that they would otherwise be unable to minimize the estate tax, but they would be able to do so more easily and less expensively.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pontifex Maximus
United States
CA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Terwox wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
odd stuff...

I blamed the 1% for the trade deals. Blacks in America are getting hit the hardest. Your hallucination is noted, again.


You talk about the Asian middle class giving our middle class the shaft. Your ignorance is noted again. Quit impressive its ignorance about what you wrote however


It means Asian. As in, literally living in Asia.

Stop making "liberals who see racism everywhere" a reality.


The location of the group he is wrongly trying to scapegoat goes not remove the racial tinge of his comment

So excuse one if one does not take your condescending load of old bollocks to heart.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.