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Subject: Thank You FFG rss

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Jason Burke
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I get that people are upset over the likely demise of BattleLore. However, I think that any anger towards FFG is unwarranted. I'm not sure that everyone knows how much effort FFG has put into this game over the past 7 years. When DOW abruptly dumped it in 2008, FFG picked it up, and continued to make expansions. At the time, the base game was difficult (near impossible) to get, and reprinting it was going to be outrageously expensive, but still FFG attempted to support the game even though the player base was completely stagnant. Then, they tried to give the game a fresh start with 2nd edition. But, we have to recognize that BattleLore hasn't been as popular as we would have liked it to be, and it has always been a niche game. If BGG stats are anything to go by, 2nd edition BattleLore has been half as popular as the original, and DOW dumped the original after a year.

BattleLore 2nd edition was a solid attempt to update and revitalize the game, and I am thankful for their work on it. Like others, I am disappointed that the elves, most likely, won't ever see the light of day, but I'm not going to vilify FFG because other, new or more successful, products require their attention. I've also seen this game come back from the dead numerous times, so, personally, I have my doubts that it's really dead (perhaps only half-dead for now).
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Peter Millen
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Well said Jason.

I wouldn't criticise DOW either. Both companies took rational decisions and they (and of course Richard Borg) have given us two systems which will continue to be played for some time to come.
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François BRUNTZ
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Sorry, I can't thank FFG for all their mistakes (no communication, irregural releases). Unfortunately they killed the game.
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Everett
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With their total lack of communication, I'm sorry, but I can't thank them.
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Niko J
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I for one am a happy necrophiliac.
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Allen J
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Nekku wrote:
I for one am a happy necrophiliac.



Niko...Either you need to take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror or you dont mean to say what I think you actually said.

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Niko J
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It was a casual jab at everyone saying Battlelore got killed. Meaning it's dead. But I still love playing it. So...
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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fbruntz wrote:
Sorry, I can't thank FFG for all their mistakes (no communication, irregural releases). Unfortunately they killed the game.

This is a capitalist society. They didn't kill the product, the market killed the product.

-shnar
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Donny Behne
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shnar wrote:
fbruntz wrote:
Sorry, I can't thank FFG for all their mistakes (no communication, irregural releases). Unfortunately they killed the game.

This is a capitalist society. They didn't kill the product, the market killed the product.

-shnar


This. I really like it, but it didn't do well enough in sales.
 
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Joe Fling
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I see and understand both sides to this. They wont continue to pour money into a product thats not profitable enough. They did try and continue the game otherwise we wouldn't have the Undead. I also understand why people are upset, they invested money into a game that they thought would continue to grow, they invested money into something and maybe feel that they didn't get their money's worth. I for one would feel like the money i have already spent would have been better spent if the game was completed (Elves). The game is good with the 3 current races and a few neutrals to throw in there. I was really looking forward to Elves and an Epic Battlelore where maybe i could mix my armies a bit on a bigger board.


The thing i don't understand is why is FFG so secret about it? Why wont they at least come out and say what is true? "It's dead" or "Elves are being play tested" or how about "We plan to continue the game, but don't know when, there is a possibility we wont be able to".

Come on FFG! We have poured money into this game and others with your FFG logo on it... we at least deserve a little communication, don't we?
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Alex Kendrick
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I know most everybody thinks it's dead, but I'm thinking we'll still see elves before all is said and done. I will hold out hope for another year.

Either way, played a game last night and had a blast. Great game, lots of replayability, and something I intend to hang onto and enjoy for years.
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Sean D.
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shnar wrote:
fbruntz wrote:
Sorry, I can't thank FFG for all their mistakes (no communication, irregural releases). Unfortunately they killed the game.

This is a capitalist society. They didn't kill the product, the market killed the product.

-shnar


Marketing and support for products do play some factor in their success though. Was FFG perfect in selling this game? I can't say, but there has to be some part of the publisher's responsibility here. Yes, the consumer's didn't buy enough. Comparing it to X-Wing or something is crazy, so with the limited resources FFG has, perhaps only the most profitable games get all the expansions. Was there ever any tournament scene for BL2? Retailer events? Promos?
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Scott Lewis
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Hector131 wrote:
Was there ever any tournament scene for BL2? Retailer events? Promos?

If I recall, there was a retailer event for the Undead release.
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koraldon
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The new battlelore:
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/8/5/runewars...
FFG probably pouring it's resources into that game, trying to recreate x-wing success in fantasy format...
 
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Garrett
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Hector131 wrote:
Was there ever any tournament scene for BL2? Retailer events? Promos?

If I recall, there was a retailer event for the Undead release.

Yes, it was last fall (2015). You could get promo cards there, too. It was an alternate art version of the Onslaught Command Card Unfortunately, that was the only support they ever seemed to do for BattleLore.

Oh, and there was also a tournament at GenCon this year. Perhaps the first and the last.
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Giulio
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Budgernaut wrote:
Oh, and there was also a tournament at GenCon this year. Perhaps the first and the last.


Interesting. I'd like to know more. Which scenarios did they play? Any special tournament rule?

Did I already say that the dial in the "new" BattleLore look terrible? They remind me of the Monopoly edition with credit cards instead of banknotes. I remember a friend of my son brought it to our home. We tried to play it but the boys soon realized it was basically the same game but slower and somehow fiddly. Never played it again. They were seven or eight at that time, I think.
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Jeffery Hudson
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well, i've still never gotten my 2nd edition copy to the table...my brother in law spends to much time playing other things and will only play the iOS/Steam implementation.

I still rather had seen both Battlelore 1 and 2 go the wood block route. Yes, mini's are A.W.E.S.O.M.E and all, but i like being able to buy a entirely new army for the same cost as a battle box of dragons. That, and wood blocks and stickers make for a far cheaper game to produce. No, it's not as cool...but i enjoy both Ancients just as much as Battlelore and it's far more economical for both GMT and myself.

But yes, a big thank you to FFG for keeping battlelore alive. Not alot of companies would have done it.
 
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Three Headed Monkey
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I still enjoy this game and it's very well designed. However I believe they may have lost marketing momentum as the first expansions were not announced for quite a while after release. Perhaps if they pushed it earlier it may have done better. Still, it's been fun.
 
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Garrett
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Barronmore wrote:
well, i've still never gotten my 2nd edition copy to the table...my brother in law spends to much time playing other things and will only play the iOS/Steam implementation.


Oh, no! That's a travesty! I can't imagine anyone preferring that piece-of-junk software program over the actual board game. The board game is soooo much better than BattleLore: Command.
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jburke71 wrote:
I get that people are upset over the likely demise of BattleLore. However, I think that any anger towards FFG is unwarranted. I'm not sure that everyone knows how much effort FFG has put into this game over the past 7 years. When DOW abruptly dumped it in 2008, FFG picked it up, and continued to make expansions. At the time, the base game was difficult (near impossible) to get, and reprinting it was going to be outrageously expensive, but still FFG attempted to support the game even though the player base was completely stagnant. Then, they tried to give the game a fresh start with 2nd edition. But, we have to recognize that BattleLore hasn't been as popular as we would have liked it to be, and it has always been a niche game. If BGG stats are anything to go by, 2nd edition BattleLore has been half as popular as the original, and DOW dumped the original after a year.

BattleLore 2nd edition was a solid attempt to update and revitalize the game, and I am thankful for their work on it. Like others, I am disappointed that the elves, most likely, won't ever see the light of day, but I'm not going to vilify FFG because other, new or more successful, products require their attention. I've also seen this game come back from the dead numerous times, so, personally, I have my doubts that it's really dead (perhaps only half-dead for now).


I agree with you! Battlelore is a fantastic game. Nothing prevent us to take the box and play with friends.
And as you said, FFG made THREE factions in 7 years. Which is great.
By comparison, Chess is 1,500 years old and contains only TWO factions!
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frida lavassani
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Had FFG for once done something different which is put out a game with all the bells in one base game and no expansion i am sure sales would have been better by including the Elves, Orcs, Dwarves with the other published 3 all in one try and to ensure the demand is there they could for once follow a Kickstarter program offer the elves, dwarves and orcs and they can see if it can get funded.

So I question their marketing process.

They must have thought sales will support the product. If they had any doubt they should have done a KS.

Most people will not follow the Runewars miniature thing because mainly there are other companies with rich history in the same type of product and secondly many people will not fall for buying two armies and then watch the product come to a halt and no more future armies.

Just look at Runewars
sales for this game has been great but no more expansion for elves and dwarves.


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Scott Lewis
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The Moon wrote:
Had FFG for once done something different which is put out a game with all the bells in one base game and no expansion i am sure sales would have been better by including the Elves, Orcs, Dwarves with the other published 3 all in one try and to ensure the demand is there they could for once follow a Kickstarter program offer the elves, dwarves and orcs and they can see if it can get funded.

I'm not sure that's a given conclusion. Having 3 extra factions in the base game would have significantly increased the cost (by at least double, I'd guess), which would have turned a lot of people off - higher cost means bigger commitment, and if someone is unsure if they will like it, they're much less likely to buy it for the price it would have been at.

This kind of game probably actually sells better with a smaller base so that the price can be lower as a easier-to-chew entry point. (It's probably the main reason that the Undead were split into two sets instead of one big set, also, to make it easier for players to ease into).
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Frank Franco
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The base game was great.
The expansions could have been done much better. While *game wise* they were fine packaging them as they did in plastic blisters, especially the micro expansions, was dumb.
Should have stuck with boxed expansions, 1 with all the extended units for the base set armies and one or 2 neutrals and then another boxed set with all the undead and 1 or 2 neutrals.
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frida lavassani
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Scott

You said having all the 6 factions in one box will increase the cost but why not use Kickstarter format to reduce the cost ?
 
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Ben Boersma
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The issue was with how it was handled over the course of its life (many lives).

DOW released 1st edition and it went exceedingly well.

The base game ended up being way too cost prohibitive to reprint. People wanted new armies which never came as the player base would 'never grow bigger than that first print run'.

DOW started to release map packs (Troll and Country) for 1st edition when people had been waiting for ages for more armies. People were unhappy and DOW quickly sold to FFG after the negative backlash.

FFG killed off 1st edition (after releasing the expansions DOW had in the pipeline already - at least they did that) and replaced it with Battles of Westeros.

Battles of Westeros was a very different beast and people weren't happy with it replacing Battledore 1st edition.

Battles of Westerns was killed off and replaced with Battlelore 2nd edition. They changed the scale and the scenario design (VP centric as opposed to banner centric) and placed it in the Renewers world.

Again, took ages to release new armies.

Along the way, they lost the original player base, then lost their new player base from BoW, then lost all their original player base once again when they made the changes to 2nd edition. Then lost the 2nd edition player base by taking ages to release new armies and instead stuck to the expansion format which had failed twice before (new armies was what fans have wanted since the 1st edition).

Then they decide to do Runewars miniatures game which will produce 'x-wing like profits' and bang, BL 2.0 loses its unique place in FFG as even if it was doing well, it would never do as well as tapping into the X-Wing crowd.
They now have a track record of not sticking with a game, but ditching and revising.

Hopefully someone releases a Commands and Colors Fantasy version and learns from the repeated mistakes that have been made along its lifetime.

My 2c from someone that was all in from day one of Battlelore 1st edition.
Cheers,
Ben.
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