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Terraforming Mars» Forums » Rules

Subject: Solo play setup and Indentured Workers pulled during setup rss

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Derek Fearnley
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I came across an interesting edge case when playing solo today. For the setup of the neutral cities and greeneries, I pulled an indentured workers (cost 0). The rules for setting up the neutral tiles seem to be there as a way to place them pseudo-randomly on the board, so it's not such a big deal, but I'm wondering what others think about placement of the tiles. For me, it was for the placement of a greenery and I just chose to view the 0 as a 1 and place it in the top left.
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Florian Ruckeisen
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Heh. Haven't thought of that one before.

Personally, I guess I would've treated 0 as "one step before 1" (so for the purpose of placing the random greeneries, it would have been like a 6). But 0=1 works just as well - or if in doubt, just drawing another card, if you don't regard the setup of the shuffled draw pile as sacred.
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Örjan Almén
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I believe the first spot would be place 0 (seems natural in a way) and then you count up so this time it ends up in starting spot, so you have probably been counting all the others one step off before ;-)
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Jonathan Fryxelius
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EnPHard wrote:
I came across an interesting edge case when playing solo today. For the setup of the neutral cities and greeneries, I pulled an indentured workers (cost 0). The rules for setting up the neutral tiles seem to be there as a way to place them pseudo-randomly on the board, so it's not such a big deal, but I'm wondering what others think about placement of the tiles. For me, it was for the placement of a greenery and I just chose to view the 0 as a 1 and place it in the top left.


We thought the players would like to feel involved in the gamemaking, so we left this one open Just kidding, this is a very special case indeed, and when it happens to me, I just draw another card instead. However, treating it as a "1" would - to me - seem to be closest to the rules, since it tells you to skip any illegal placements. I would tend to treat 0 as an illegal placement, moving on to the next, which is 1. This is in no way an obvious way to do it, though, which is why I always draw a new card instead.
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Jack Francisco
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That hasn't happened to me, but a 0 cost would be a discard and draw again for me.
 
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Jacob Fryxelius
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EnPHard wrote:
I came across an interesting edge case when playing solo today. For the setup of the neutral cities and greeneries, I pulled an indentured workers (cost 0). The rules for setting up the neutral tiles seem to be there as a way to place them pseudo-randomly on the board, so it's not such a big deal, but I'm wondering what others think about placement of the tiles. For me, it was for the placement of a greenery and I just chose to view the 0 as a 1 and place it in the top left.


Good question! I've known this could happen, but very seldom. Because the exact placement is not actually important, I doesn't really matter how you resolve it.
The purpose of the neutral cities and greeneries is to provide variation in the map setup so that you can't always place tiles in your same favorite places. It also makes cards such as Tharsis Republic, Zeppelins and Martian Rails (and others) more viable in the solo game.

Cheers!

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Kamil Łukasik
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Just to be clear - as I understand, you only place neutral cities and greenery tiles ONCE, during the setup (not every generation)?

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O.Shane Balloun
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Bellingham
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Fryxen wrote:
EnPHard wrote:
I came across an interesting edge case when playing solo today. For the setup of the neutral cities and greeneries, I pulled an indentured workers (cost 0). The rules for setting up the neutral tiles seem to be there as a way to place them pseudo-randomly on the board, so it's not such a big deal, but I'm wondering what others think about placement of the tiles. For me, it was for the placement of a greenery and I just chose to view the 0 as a 1 and place it in the top left.


Good question! I've known this could happen, but very seldom. Because the exact placement is not actually important, I doesn't really matter how you resolve it.
The purpose of the neutral cities and greeneries is to provide variation in the map setup so that you can't always place tiles in your same favorite places. It also makes cards such as Tharsis Republic, Zeppelins and Martian Rails (and others) more viable in the solo game.

Cheers!



Mathematically, I would treat 0 as a modulus for the total number of valid hexes on the board (whatever that number is, let's call it H). I would simply put the tile on hex H at the other corner of the board.
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H-B-G
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Halesowen
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warlock000 wrote:
Just to be clear - as I understand, you only place neutral cities and greenery tiles ONCE, during the setup (not every generation)?



Correct
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H-B-G
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grammatoncleric wrote:
Fryxen wrote:
EnPHard wrote:
I came across an interesting edge case when playing solo today. For the setup of the neutral cities and greeneries, I pulled an indentured workers (cost 0). The rules for setting up the neutral tiles seem to be there as a way to place them pseudo-randomly on the board, so it's not such a big deal, but I'm wondering what others think about placement of the tiles. For me, it was for the placement of a greenery and I just chose to view the 0 as a 1 and place it in the top left.


Good question! I've known this could happen, but very seldom. Because the exact placement is not actually important, I doesn't really matter how you resolve it.
The purpose of the neutral cities and greeneries is to provide variation in the map setup so that you can't always place tiles in your same favorite places. It also makes cards such as Tharsis Republic, Zeppelins and Martian Rails (and others) more viable in the solo game.

Cheers!



Mathematically, I would treat 0 as a modulus for the total number of valid hexes on the board (whatever that number is, let's call it H). I would simply put the tile on hex H at the other corner of the board.


I've been playing that you start in the first eligible hex and then 1 would take you to the next hex and so on, so 0 would be the starting hex, top left (or bottom right for the second city) and you don't move.

As Jacob says it doesn't really matter how you do it as long as you get a variable set up between games.
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Matthieu Fontaines
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warlock000 wrote:
Just to be clear - as I understand, you only place neutral cities and greenery tiles ONCE, during the setup (not every generation)?



did you place 28 neutral cities and 28 neutral greeneries on your last solo play :what:
Energy saving, martian rails, zeppelins and so on must become quite interesting to play :p
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Kamil Łukasik
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No no no, I played the game correctly . I had a conversation on a polish forum regarding the netural tiles placement rules. One guy was arguing that the rule "Before you choose your cards" applies to every research phase. I told him that it refers only to the initial 10 cards during the setup, but he said that he wants an official answer from the designer (so I asked for 100% clarification here). The whole discussion started after I posted some pics from my first solo play (sorry for the quality). He saw them and said I played incorrectly .

I got 99 points in total, I have no idea whether it's good or not

https://s22.postimg.org/s3foafush/tm1.jpg
https://s22.postimg.org/w12xzuhlt/tm2.jpg
https://s22.postimg.org/l2rohnt0h/tm3.jpg
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H-B-G
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warlock000 wrote:
No no no, I played the game correctly . I had a conversation on a polish forum regarding the netural tiles placement rules. One guy was arguing that the rule "Before you choose your cards" applies to every research phase. I told him that it refers only to the initial 10 cards during the setup, but he said that he wants an official answer from the designer (so I asked for 100% clarification here). The whole discussion started after I posted some pics from my first solo play (sorry for the quality). He saw them and said I played incorrectly .

I got 99 points in total, I have no idea whether it's good or not

https://s22.postimg.org/s3foafush/tm1.jpg
https://s22.postimg.org/w12xzuhlt/tm2.jpg
https://s22.postimg.org/l2rohnt0h/tm3.jpg


Do you know if this guy has actually tried to play the way he suggests? There are 61 hexes on Mars and 10 of them are reserved for other tiles leaving 51 legal placements for the first neutral city. As Matthiu notes you would have to place 28 cities and 28 greenery if you played this way which is 5 more than the starting number of legal placements so the way he suggests is impossible.
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