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Subject: Would you recommend this game to me, given my preferences? rss

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Ben Kyo
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I know there are other threads like this, but this one is mine. Anyone willing to take a stab at a personalised recommendation, positive or negative, please do!

I'm thinking of picking up the base game only, which works out at about $315 ($100 shipping and at least $15 currency exchange loss). That's a lot of money for a single game, especially as we're about to buy a house, so I'd appreciate some advice from people who have already played the game.

Board game preferences:

In general I much prefer heavier longer games to shorter lighter ones, and I prefer competitive gaming to cooperative gaming, and cooperative to solo.
I love Vlaada Chvatil games, which is kind of a category in itself.
Mage Knight is the only game I've played solo in the last 20 years, although I played that a lot. Oh, I did also play Friday, which I borrowed, beat on my first try and never returned to.
I like some Euros, but only when the theme is tightly integrated with the mechanisms (see: Chvatil), and have a hard time with many point salads.
There are very few Ameritrash games I enjoy, and in general I dislike dice-chucking unless the game is short and light. Exceptions that I do own and still love are basically just Space Hulk and Blood Bowl, because despite the dice-chucking both have a strong tactical core and I suppose a "puzzly" element in addition to the tight theming. The dice-chucking aspects of Kingdom Death worry me.

My ratings: https://boardgamegeek.com/collection/user/Benkyo

Miniatures

I feel like I left miniature gaming behind ~20 years ago (my Warhammer 40k collection and a lot of Games Workshop games), and I will never buy another endlessly expandable game again (my Blood Bowl is home made, with cubes instead of miniatures). I did enjoy painting my Space Hulk miniatures, to a fairly high standard, but that was 4 years ago, when I didn't have a daughter eating up all my free time. Assembling and painting miniatures is not a problem for me, but nor is it something I'm particularly looking forward to.

Theme/other
I really enjoyed Dark Souls on the PC, and like grimdark/fantasy themes in general. I really don't appreciate the ridiculous tits and bums aspect of Kingdom Death (and no, the male pin ups don't balance this out), but I understand that most of the "fan-service" comes in the form of extras, and isn't part of the core game, so this shouldn't be an issue? Nudity and grotesque monsters are not in and of themselves a problem.
I really enjoy roguelike computer games, ever since I stumbled across Nethack back in the day. Real consequences to decisions, no quicksaves, permanent death, and the feel of actually getting better at the game through repeated play, and not through simply investing the requisite amount of time to advance are the key things there. In contrast, I can't stand JRPGs, or "grinding" in general.

So, having typed all that out, it seems that Kingdom Death fits my computer gaming preferences well, but not my board game preferences? Is it essentially a table-top roguelike? Maybe it will be a cross-over I'll enjoy? I honestly don't know.
 
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Im using mobile so Im not suitable to type much, but in short... no
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Lonny x
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Did you enjoy Warhammer when you played it? What are you preferences in terms of RPG's? Do you like pen and paper RPG's?
 
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Emmit Svenson
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Benkyo wrote:
I much prefer heavier longer games to shorter lighter ones...


Yes KD!

Benkyo wrote:
I prefer competitive gaming to cooperative gaming, and cooperative to solo...


No KD!

Benkyo wrote:
I love Vlaada Chvatil games, which is kind of a category in itself.


Yes KD! It's not Bunny Bunny Moose Moose, but it is surprisingly funny when it is not horrific! And sometimes when it is!

Benkyo wrote:
I like some Euros...


No KD!

Benkyo wrote:
...but only when the theme is tightly integrated with the mechanisms...


Yes KD! The theme being coping intelligently with random horrors that befall you!

Benkyo wrote:
Board game preferences:[/b]There are very few Ameritrash games I enjoy, and in general I dislike dice-chucking unless the game is short and light.


No KD!

Benkyo wrote:
Exceptions that I do own and still love are basically just Space Hulk and Blood Bowl, because despite the dice-chucking both have a strong tactical core and I suppose a "puzzly" element in addition to the tight theming. .


Yes KD!

Benkyo wrote:
The dice-chucking aspects of Kingdom Death worry me.


Yes KD! This game SHOULD worry you!

Benkyo wrote:


tl;dr

Benkyo wrote:
I feel like I left miniature gaming behind ~20 years ago (my Warhammer 40k collection and a lot of Games Workshop games), and I will never buy another endlessly expandable game again (my Blood Bowl is home made, with cubes instead of miniatures). I did enjoy painting my Space Hulk miniatures, to a fairly high standard, but that was 4 years ago, when I didn't have a daughter eating up all my free time. Assembling and painting miniatures is not a problem for me, but nor is it something I'm particularly looking forward to.


No KD!

Benkyo wrote:
I really enjoyed Dark Souls on the PC, and like grimdark/fantasy themes in general.


Yes KD!

Benkyo wrote:
Nudity and grotesque monsters are not in and of themselves a problem.


Yes KD!

Benkyo wrote:
Real consequences to decisions, no quicksaves, permanent death, and the feel of actually getting better at the game through repeated play, and not through simply investing the requisite amount of time to advance are the key things there.


Yes KD!

Benkyo wrote:
Is it essentially a table-top roguelike? Maybe it will be a cross-over I'll enjoy?


Yes KD!

Benkyo wrote:
I honestly don't know.


Neither do I! Why not find someone near you who has it and play a game?
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Shelby Babb
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Styfen wrote:

Thank you for willfully contributing to the noise, making it harder for people to find information and/or help people doing so and then putting this on display. Much appreciated.


I get that you're upset that lots of newbies are asking questions, many of them repeatedly, but... well... this is 2016. Everybody goes out on the internet now with questions, opinions, and feels a need to make themselves heard.

You're no different, and you're not really making anything better.

It's not that I even disagree with you (I don't), but telling people after the fact to go look in the FAQ accomplishes zilch and just seems to be frustrating you. Likely because you feel the need to do it in every single KDM with a question mark in the title. And let's be honest, if people took your advice, all they'd accomplish is cluttering up -that- thread (but at least then it wouldn't clutter up your subscription feed, right?).

But this isn't even one of your posts like that. Here you're just bitching out someone because they annoyed you with asking a question. A question -you- once had yourself I'm willing to bet.

KDM is the psychotic new hotness, and in a bit over a month the KS will end and people will stop posting things that annoy you.

Until the pledge manager opens up, and you'll see a new spike of people asking which expansion is the best/worst/has most genitals (and of the three questions, only the third is objective enough to be worthy of a FAQ entry (come on gameable Wet Nurse!)). And your frustration levels rise again.

tl;dr - maybe you should take a break.
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San Dee Jota wrote:
Styfen wrote:

Thank you for willfully contributing to the noise, making it harder for people to find information and/or help people doing so and then putting this on display. Much appreciated.


I get that you're upset that lots of newbies are asking questions, many of them repeatedly, but... well... this is 2016. Everybody goes out on the internet now with questions, opinions, and feels a need to make themselves heard.

You're no different, and you're not really making anything better.

It's not that I even disagree with you (I don't), but telling people after the fact to go look in the FAQ accomplishes zilch and just seems to be frustrating you. Likely because you feel the need to do it in every single KDM with a question mark in the title. And let's be honest, if people took your advice, all they'd accomplish is cluttering up -that- thread (but at least then it wouldn't clutter up your subscription feed, right?).

But this isn't even one of your posts like that. Here you're just bitching out someone because they annoyed you with asking a question. A question -you- once had yourself I'm willing to bet.

KDM is the psychotic new hotness, and in a bit over a month the KS will end and people will stop posting things that annoy you.

Until the pledge manager opens up, and you'll see a new spike of people asking which expansion is the best/worst/has most genitals (and of the three questions, only the third is objective enough to be worthy of a FAQ entry (come on gameable Wet Nurse!)). And your frustration levels rise again.

tl;dr - maybe you should take a break.


OMG, this +1. I could not have said it better myself.
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Shelby Babb
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To the OP....

Honestly, if you don't enjoy a solo "Ameritrash" game where the monsters have sexual horror themes and you're expected to spend some time in the hobby game aspect as a feature of the experience (i.e. you're supposed to want to spend time assembling and painting miniatures), this is almost certainly -not- the game for you.

I think you'd be happier with the Edge Dawnfall honestly. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/awakenrealms/the-edge-d... You might see if there are late pledges open.
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Peter Bowie
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I'm in a similar boat. I primarily like highly interactive competitive (euro) games. High amounts of luck turns me off, and I'd rather beat my friends than work together with them. But KD:M just works for me. The theme is engaging without pushing a narrative down my throat like most games of its ilk, and there's a lot of decision making in the settlement and showdown phases.

I also like Mage Knight, so my initial thought after playing and liking KD:M was "maybe I just like epic co-ops".

I'd also recommend Alchemists, Trickerion and Argent: the Consortium as Euros with tightly-integrated (and fun) themes.
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Jim Patching
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I think you will feel you've wasted $315.
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Martin Buller
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A thing to keep in mind though, IF you have the money and dont have the possibility to try it for free in a gaming group near you. Then I can pretty much promise you that you will be able to get your money back if you buy it now for $250, by selling it on, so if your on the fence and it wont hit your budget to hard, then try it out and move it on if you dont like it.
 
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that Matt
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valle1 wrote:
A thing to keep in mind though, IF you have the money and dont have the possibility to try it for free in a gaming group near you. Then I can pretty much promise you that you will be able to get your money back if you buy it now for $250, by selling it on, so if your on the fence and it wont hit your budget to hard, then try it out and move it on if you dont like it.

Living in Japan makes the resale prospects a bit sketchier, I'm sure.
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Emmit Svenson
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tumorous wrote:
Living in Japan makes the resale prospects a bit sketchier, I'm sure.


I've seen enough anime to suspect there's a Japanese market for, say, the Sunstalker and Lion God.
 
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Nathan Ehlers
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Tokyo is one of the few places on earth that has KD products in an actual storefront. Take that for what you will...
 
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Ben Kyo
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Thanks for the replies!

So that's four counts of no, one yes, one on balance probably a yes, and one yes (but only if you can gamble on a resale).

malkaven: I honestly don't remember, but I know I spent way more time painting and modelling than I ever did playing. RPGs I prefer the idea of interactive storytelling far more than stats and miniatures, but I actually have little experience of either, despite owning a ton of RPG material as a teenager.

emmit svenson: Thanks for the breakdown - the Yes! No! conflict is exactly why I'm unable to come to an informed decision. I do know one guy in Osaka who has a copy, but he never brings it to game meets because of its huge size. I will track him down and force him to introduce me to the game.

San Dee Jota: Thanks, that's pretty much what I would have written. This thread couldn't possibly be in a FAQ, because it's all about me.

C3Gaming: It's people like you who are keeping me on the fence. If I hadn't read so many reports of "normally I don't like this kind of thing but..." it would be much easier to come to a decision! Thanks =P

valle1 and tumorous: I wouldn't want to gamble on recouping costs.

sirgalin: I take it to mean there either isn't enough interest to sell off their stock, or they are marking up the price way too high, or both.
 
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Hellena Handbasket
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From your description, I think you'd like the theme of the game, and the general structure, but would ultimately have trouble enjoying playing the game because of mechanics. This game's best played with a relatively small, dedicated group and is well suited to solo play. In addition, much of the interesting gameplay comes from coping with completely random horrible things happening to your survivors. There's a lot of "well this survivor/hunting party/what have you just got destroyed with no chance to save it, what do we do to mitigate this loss?" There are times, as well, where a series of bad dice rolls will doom a settlement and cause you to "lose" the game, even with a strong/established settlement. If you think you can see the fun in crafting an emergent narrative out of random/unavoidable failures, then you might very well find enjoyment in this game, but it sounds to me like the game's punishing randomness could very well turn you off. If I were you, I'd definitely at least arrange to play the game with someone who has it first.
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Lonny x
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Tough call. Based on your preferences your going to REALLY like some of the aspects of this game and hate others. Like others have said I'd try to play it before hand. At very least watch a play through via youtube although they will contain spoilers. Then again YOLO just get it or trade it if you don't like it.
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Daniel Reed
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I purchased a retail copy of KD:M for $400 and I am currently pledged at the Satan's Lantern $1666 pledge level. This is my advice not only to you but for anyone considering taking the plunge into KD:M.

RESEARCH!!!! Your about to drop $300+ on a game.

1. YouTube: Watch unboxing's, play-through's, and rules video's. I spent hours watching them.

2. Reviews: Read/Watch them ALL. Start a list of the things that you both like and dislike.

3. BGG- So much information...check out session reports and browse the rules forums.

4. Internet- Reddit, Vibrant Lantern, KD: M Website...so many places to find useful information.

5. ASK QUESTIONS: There tons of KD:M FAQ's but if you can't find the answer then by all means ask questions. No one can tell you if you will like it but they can give you fact based answers. Like for example:

Is there a lot of Randomness involved KD:M? Yes, its extremely random!!

6. After several weeks you should have a list of pro's and con's. Spend some time to think about which side has the most weight. Take a break for a few days and then research some more.

7. The most important thing is realize that no one can really tell any person if a game will be a match for them. I have a friend that I have known for 16 years. I was 10000% positive KD:M would be right in his wheel house. He hated it...has 0 desire to ever play it again.

8. Finally after weeks of doing your due diligence make a fully educated choice as to whether this is the game for you.

So that's my advice.


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Michael
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You might be better off late pledging for Dark Souls: The Board Game. It's an IP you already like, it will be released way sooner than kingdom death monster, and it's a lot less expensive.

Also good new dungeon crawls are being released regularly. And as time goes on the VAI systems are continuing to improve in quality. This would be another reason that in my opinion, I personally would not back KDM for a release that is quite far off in the future even for a kickstarter. I say this because by the time KDM 1.5 comes out there will likely already be other good games competing within its niche.
 
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that Matt
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mkaup366 wrote:
I personally would not back KDM for a release that is quite far off in the future even for a kickstarter.

9 months from now?
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Ben Kyo
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Zamnath: I'm pretty sure that the majority of the time I could spend with the game would end up being solo play.

malkaven: Yup.

ravenblade23x: I've done all the research I can without spoiling content, over a period of months, and I'm still unsure, which is why I made this thread. The only thing left to do now is try and get a game or two in, which I can't guarantee happening but I'm beginning to think is the only way to reach a conclusion.

mkaup366: I wasn't convinced by the Dark Souls pitch, it seems to lack a strong campaign narrative, and my brand loyalty is non-existent. I'm not the type to buy into something completely different just because it features the same characters. Summer 2017 really isn't that far off, but you make a good point about newer and better systems being made to tap into the same market. I'm sure there will be a lot of imitators, and some of them will no doubt be mechanically sound and come in at lower price points.


I wish someone would get around to making a Vassal module for this...
 
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tumorous wrote:
mkaup366 wrote:
I personally would not back KDM for a release that is quite far off in the future even for a kickstarter.

9 months from now?


The kickstarter says December 2020. Is that incorrect? Is there other information? I'd be happy to see it.
 
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Ben Kyo
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mkaup366 wrote:
tumorous wrote:
mkaup366 wrote:
I personally would not back KDM for a release that is quite far off in the future even for a kickstarter.

9 months from now?


The kickstarter says December 2020. Is that incorrect? Is there other information? I'd be happy to see it.

This has to be the most FAQ:

Quote:
Wave 1 - Estimated Delivery Summer 2017

Core Game / 1.4 Update Pack
United States... $25 / $10
European Union... $40 / $20
Canada... $30 / $15
Australia... $40 / $20
Rest of World... $100 / $30

Wave 2 - Estimated Delivery Spring 2018
Gambler's Box, Promo and cross-over figures
United States... $20 + $2 per Add on
European Union... $20 + $2 per Add on
Canada... $20 + $2 per Add on
Australia... $20 + $2 per Add on
Rest of World... $30 + $2 per Add on

Wave 3 - Estimated Delivery Spring 2019
New Expansions
United States... $15 + $5 per additional expansion
European Union... $15 + $5 per additional expansion
Canada... $15 + $5 per additional expansion
Australia... $15 + $5 per additional expansion
Rest of World... $30 + $5 per additional expansion

Wave 4 & Beyond - Estimated Delivery Winter 2020
???
Even I don't know for 100% what may happen during this campaign.


In other news, tumorous has single-handedly convinced me to buy Kingdom Death v1.5, so this thread seems to have served its purpose.
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that Matt
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Well, shit, now it's on me when you hate it.
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Daniel Reed
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Benkyo wrote:
.

ravenblade23x: I've done all the research I can without spoiling content, over a period of months, and I'm still unsure, which is why I made this thread. The only thing left to do now is try and get a game or two in, which I can't guarantee happening but I'm beginning to think is the only way to reach a conclusion.


You spent months researching the game, your still unsure and you think somehow someone in this post is going to validate the purchase for you. If after months of research I was still unsure I would not pull the trigger.

Sort of hesitant to recommend this but if you have/get a copy of Tabletop Simulator you can try out a version of the game using it. Very real moral and legal ramifications involved so I don't feel comfortable talking more about it.
 
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tumorous wrote:
Well, shit, now it's on me when you hate it.


Good job! Do you get that commission check at the end of the campaign or when everything ships?
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