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Subject: What am I doing wrong???? Long games. rss

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ruz Reuben
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Question 1 - It takes me 1 hour to setup the game. I hear its supposed to take much less time. What am I doing wrong???

Question 2 - When I play solo conquest the game takes me a shocking 3 hours. What am I doing wrong???

Last question - I played full co-op 3 players. We played between 12:30 to 18:00 . At 18:00 we were only finishing day 2 so we had to stop there. It took me 5.5 hours just to play 2.8 rounds. What am I doing wrong?shakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshakeshake
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ruz Reuben
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WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?
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Andy Kerrison
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Difficult to say, but here's some pointers:

Question 1)
Setup is mostly dependent on how you're storing your components. All tokens should already be colour sorted in separate bags or containers. All cards of each type (wounds, artifacts, etc) should again be separated into their own decks and stored that way. All hero items (skills/starting decks/tokens) should be stored together.

Really, all you should need to do to setup the game is shuffle a few decks of cards and the appropriate map tiles

Question 2)
You should be planning your turn while your opponents are taking theirs, so that you already know pretty much exactly what you'll be doing as soon as it's time to start your turn. Sometimes available mana will affect this, so you should have a contingency plan too. Given that you're playing co-op, you should already be collaborating to decide approximately who is going to clear up what sections of the map, so there should be very few 'surprises' that cause you to have to rethink your actions.
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Niko J
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This is a long game. You can bring it down to 2-3h if you can curb your AP (=analysis paralysis, overthinking your turns) and don't have to reference the rules all the time.

Quote:
Question 1 - It takes me 1 hour to setup the game. I hear its supposed to take much less time. What am I doing wrong???


I guess you're a thorough shuffler...

More seriously, what IS taking you so long? Shuffle a few decks and piles, boom you're done. For shuffling, you might be using a slower method which adds a bit of time per deck. For instance pile shuffling vs. mash or riffle shuffle (first shuffle in that video).

There's bit of a skill curve with riffle shuffling, but mash is pretty easy if you use sleeved cards. Doesn't bend the cards either.

Do you have a good storage system? Do you just mix everything into the box or do you have spells in one deck, advanced actions in another etc.? After a game is over I quickly sort everything into its respective deck and each deck into it's own little baggie (too lazy to get tuck boxes). This means that when I start up next time all I need to do is shuffle each deck real quick and I'm mostly done.

Knowing the rules helps too. By that I mean I don't spend any time umm'ing and ahh'ing over what goes where.

Quote:
Question 2 - When I play solo conquest the game takes me a shocking 3 hours. What am I doing wrong???


You mean the actual six round solo conquest? It usually takes me 3 hours, but I've seen quicker players say they do it in 2. This is a long game. Know the rules and don't overthink your turns is all I can say. I like to overthink a bit, hence the 3h length.

Quote:
Last question - I played full co-op 3 players. We played between 12:30 to 18:00 . At 18:00 we were only finishing day 2 so we had to stop there. It took me 5.5 hours just to play 2.8 rounds.


Don't play 3-4 player games with all newbies. This is a long game, an excruciatingly long game if all or most don't have a handle on the rules. You could try to emphasise quick decision making. You need to know the rules by heart yourself and have a plan on how to teach them efficiently.

Did you teach them first with First Recon? It's not a Fun scenario but it gets the rules through pretty well. Another thing I'd consider for the first few multiplayer games is to play a Blitz scenario, since they're shorter and ramp up quicker.
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Mark Bauer
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I would say: 3 hours for a solo conquest? that's quite okay. It usually takes me 4 to 5 hours for that. Different expectations?
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that Matt
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ruzz wrote:
WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?

Probably nothing.
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Baker Odom
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I gotta agree with everyone here.

You're clearly doing something wrong for the setup but probably nothing at all wrong for the actual gameplay.
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ruz Reuben
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Thanks to all the quick replies
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ruz Reuben
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Nekku wrote:
This is a long game. You can bring it down to 2-3h if you can curb your AP (=analysis paralysis, overthinking your turns) and don't have to reference the rules all the time.

Quote:
Question 1 - It takes me 1 hour to setup the game. I hear its supposed to take much less time. What am I doing wrong???


I guess you're a thorough shuffler...

More seriously, what IS taking you so long? Shuffle a few decks and piles, boom you're done. For shuffling, you might be using a slower method which adds a bit of time per deck. For instance pile shuffling vs. mash or riffle shuffle (first shuffle in that video).

There's bit of a skill curve with riffle shuffling, but mash is pretty easy if you use sleeved cards. Doesn't bend the cards either.

Do you have a good storage system? Do you just mix everything into the box or do you have spells in one deck, advanced actions in another etc.? After a game is over I quickly sort everything into its respective deck and each deck into it's own little baggie (too lazy to get tuck boxes). This means that when I start up next time all I need to do is shuffle each deck real quick and I'm mostly done.

Knowing the rules helps too. By that I mean I don't spend any time umm'ing and ahh'ing over what goes where.

Quote:
Question 2 - When I play solo conquest the game takes me a shocking 3 hours. What am I doing wrong???


You mean the actual six round solo conquest? It usually takes me 3 hours, but I've seen quicker players say they do it in 2. This is a long game. Know the rules and don't overthink your turns is all I can say. I like to overthink a bit, hence the 3h length.

Quote:
Last question - I played full co-op 3 players. We played between 12:30 to 18:00 . At 18:00 we were only finishing day 2 so we had to stop there. It took me 5.5 hours just to play 2.8 rounds.


Don't play 3-4 player games with all newbies. This is a long game, an excruciatingly long game if all or most don't have a handle on the rules. You could try to emphasise quick decision making. You need to know the rules by heart yourself and have a plan on how to teach them efficiently.

Did you teach them first with First Recon? It's not a Fun scenario but it gets the rules through pretty well. Another thing I'd consider for the first few multiplayer games is to play a Blitz scenario, since they're shorter and ramp up quicker.


So 3 hours is fine with SC? OK.

So maybe my setup takes a long time because I setup accordin to the the rules??? I dont know.

Now the co-op problem:

Well I played with my young brother(played 1.5 recon) and my father(played 0 games) and none of us plans in other players turns. So I guess that is the problem. THANKS
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ruz Reuben
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Waiting for help on the setup
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that Matt
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Reducing set-up time
Is there a smarter way to set up the game?
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Will
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ruzz wrote:
Waiting for help on the setup

I have all the decks split up in Dragon Shield or similar Magic deck boxes so all I have to do is shuffle those up.
The tokens I usually put 2 colors of tokens into each of 4 coffee mugs that I draw them out of, so no shuffling until I need them really. Everything else is fairly quick beyond that.

For solo gameplay, it usually takes me that long, but that doesn't include long breaks I take. If I get to a point where I'm thinking about a decision, sometimes I'll just go do something else and ponder it casually. I'll play it over a few days, or even a week for maybe 1/2 hour to 1 hour a night. For me, the enjoyment is in the decision making, not in getting it over with quickly.
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Niko J
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ruzz wrote:
Waiting for help on the setup


I just set the game up after several months of not playing. 14 minutes 56 seconds. From opening the box (this is a slow box to open by the way) to drawing my hand and deciding which tactics card to pick. That included checking the rulebook for scenario setup and checking a location card to make sure I played monasteries right.

Things that helped me do it as fast as I did:

Advanced actions were in their own ziplock bag, as were spells etc.. All I did was grab a deck from its bag and gave it a proper mash shuffle. Then placed it on its place on the table. Repeat for each deck. Basically, organise your game. You haven't told us how you store it, but if everything is jumbled up in one big pile in the box I'm not surprised it takes long time to set up.

Familiarity with the game. I've played Mage Knight a lot, so while it's been a while since my last game I know where a lot of stuff is supposed to go. Apart from checking what kind of map tiles I need and making sure I played monasteries correctly, I didn't have to waste time looking things from the rulebook.

Some time cutting measures I could use to make this faster:

I should get little bags for different enemy tokens. Shuffling them took a bit too long. If I had a small bag for each type I could just toss them to their respective bags and draw one blindly as necessary.

If I chose to use a dummy player app I wouldn't have had to shuffle dummy's deck or dig crystals for him. There's an app for both Android and IOS, no idea about others.

I suppose shuffling cards would be faster than shuffling tiles, so I might print these out.


Again, what is taking so long with your setup? Do you spend 30 minutes shuffling decks? Do you look at the rulebook a lot? Do you have your cards all mixed up that need to be sorted first? It's difficult to give accurate answers if we don't know what's slowing you down specifically.
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Bryan Thunkd
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ruzz wrote:
Waiting for help on the setup
If you have everything sorted and appropriately stored (like cards in deck boxes and bits in a tackle box with divisions for different types of chits) then most of the set-up will be simply pulling stuff out of the container and putting in the appropriate spot (and shuffling). It shouldn't really take that long. If you have everything jumbled together and you're sorting things out by types, then you need to invest in a better storage solution.
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Nathaniel Chambers
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ruzz wrote:
Waiting for help on the setup


I can't recommend printing out and making the tuckboxes you can find here on BGG. They helped speed up my setup immensely.

If you are doing Coop a ton, you might be well off buying Krang twice. Once for using, and once just to have Volkare or the Dummy deck (whichever you use) pre-loaded. I don't do this, but it has occured to me to speed things up.

Setup for me usually goes about 20 min if I have people helping, and probably 30-40 min if I'm by myself (depending on my awakeness and movement speed). Though less now, because I stopped stacking the tokens and just created one big facedown pile (which my OCD friends cannot stand, and they can stack them themselves if they need)

I don't play solo, just not my thing, but the few times I tried, I found it took a while because I couldn't think about my turn while someone else was taking their turn, which made the whole process not as sped up as I hoped. I think the best way to play is two players. That way you can do updates of things while the other player is taking their turn and have enough time to think about your own turn (hopefully)

With people who have never played before, I tend to find the game goes 3 hours per player (and that is with me knowing the game very well and not having to looks stuff up constantly). With people who have played before, I find it takes 2hrs per player if they all know the game super well. But the last time I played it was closer to 2.5 per player (in a 2 player game) and we both knew it well. I can't remember if I include setup time in this estimate.
 
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David Griffin
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The broken token insert takes some time to assemble but works well.
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David Arlington
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ruzz wrote:
Question 1 - It takes me 1 hour to setup the game. I hear its supposed to take much less time. What am I doing wrong???


I bought myself one of these when it was on sale for something ridiculous like $4.99 at Harbor Freight:



Set up time is a breeze with one of these.

ruzz wrote:
Question 2 - When I play solo conquest the game takes me a shocking 3 hours. What am I doing wrong???


I had to laugh a bit when I read this. I just finished a game of Solo Conquest that took me FIVE DAYS. And I probably played like an hour and a half every day. Now, given I WAS looking over a lot of rules since I hadn't played in so long and given, my final two turns my assaults on the Cities each took me about 45 minutes to plan out each assault so it would work...

But three hours? I would be ECSTATIC if I could play Solo Conquest in just three hours. Hey, as long as you're having fun, don't sweat it!

Dave
 
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that Matt
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DocSavage2001 wrote:
I bought myself one of these when it was on sale for something ridiculous like $4.99 at Harbor Freight:


If I'm not mistaken, that's one of these organizers: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005QWYF/ref?tag=artic...

Perpetually only about $11-12 at Amazon, these are great if you don't mind storage outside the box.
 
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Marion
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carbon_dragon wrote:
The broken token insert takes some time to assemble but works well.


And this is how it looks like, and it is awesome:


It's the one on the left.
The compartments can be taken out so underneath there are more compartments. VERY useful. And it looks good.
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maho wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:
The broken token insert takes some time to assemble but works well.


And this is how it looks like, and it is awesome:


It's the one on the left.
The compartments can be taken out so underneath there are more compartments. VERY useful. And it looks good.


Now I'm jealous, One of their best products in my opinion.
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Dzyhanas S.
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answer 1: pack components to the game box orderly. This greatly help setup time!
answer 2: play a few more times, you will get faster.
last answer: same answer to second question, play more. For example when I am playing with newbies i got chance to observe others. They are thinking and trying to understand 'how things work, best strategies, etc' meanwhile I already finished choosing which cards I am going to play within seconds...so play a few more times and game becomes 'faster'
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