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Subject: is it all about the 6+ devs? rss

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Olivier D.
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Hi!

with about a couple dozen games logged, and while I enjoy the game, some disturbing pattern is emerging : basically, whoever gets the most 6+ devs wins.

Did we miss something? Is it expected for players to start the game with large explorations, hoping to get the 2 or 3 6+ devs that will win the game for them?

Without even trying to maximize their effect, 6+ devs usually make 10ish, which basically can't be beaten for the cost. Are they supposed to be that broken?

Has anyone tried playing with a 6+ dev limit (eg 1 per player), or would that be a bad idea?

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Alexandre P.
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mildaene wrote:
Has anyone tried playing with a 6+ dev limit (eg 1 per player), or would that be a bad idea?


I haven't played it for a while but I don't remember 6+ devs to be a very common thing.
Don't you try to rush the game sometimes by building the cheapest tiles or by creating a VP engine ?
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Graham Robinson
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If people are doing multiple large explores and then building 2-3 6+ devs, they're going to be taking a lot of time to do so.

IF you get the right tiles early, you can beat them with a tableau rush. Basically, you know they're going to call Explore and then Develop for you, and have little interest in Settle.

You can therefore call Settle with immunity, and leave dice on Explore (to get more tiles/cash) and Develop (to build cheap Devs quickly) safe in the knowledge that they'll call these phases for you.

Cheap planets will also give you more dice than the 6+ dev builders, giving you a bigger tempo lead.

You may also get some mileage out of produce/ship, though that's unlikely to help you end the game quickly. It may give you a VP edge though.

Group think is wonderful in this game - the guy doing something different will often win!

Cheers,
Graham
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Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
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mildaene wrote:
with about a couple dozen games logged, and while I enjoy the game, some disturbing pattern is emerging : basically, whoever gets the most 6+ devs wins.

The 6+ developments are expensive to get out unless you have a power where you can get them out cheaper. Someone who lucks out on cheap production planets with colored dice can quickly empty the VP pool by alternating produce/ship turns and money turns to get the dice back in the cup.
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Simon Kamber
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My experience is the opposite: 6-cost developments trend to be much less important in our roll games, compared to race. I see two reasons for this:
- the large investment required to get 6 dive on a development and then back in the cup afterwards
- the ability to settle/develop multiple tiles in one call.

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Ryan Keane
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Dulkal wrote:
My experience is the opposite: 6-cost developments trend to be much less important in our roll games, compared to race. I see two reasons for this:
- the large investment required to get 6 dive on a development and then back in the cup afterwards
- the ability to settle/develop multiple tiles in one call.



Agreed - 6-devs are much less important in Roll than in Race or San Juan. In addition to Simon's 2 reasons, I would add:
- since you see far fewer tiles/cards in Roll, it's much harder to find a 6-dev that meshes well with your starting tiles and the path you've already taken.
- unlike in Race where you can just save 6-dev in your hand for a while until you have a big enough hand, a 6-dev tile is in your stack and you have to save up now to build because you can't any other tile underneath it first.

Definitely I've seen players win when they get lucky and get the right 6-dev for what they're doing. I think I've seen maybe one game where a player got 2 6-devs out.
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therealbuserian wrote:
If people are doing multiple large explores and then building 2-3 6+ devs, they're going to be taking a lot of time to do so.

IF you get the right tiles early, you can beat them with a tableau rush. Basically, you know they're going to call Explore and then Develop for you, and have little interest in Settle.

You can therefore call Settle with immunity, and leave dice on Explore (to get more tiles/cash) and Develop (to build cheap Devs quickly) safe in the knowledge that they'll call these phases for you.

Cheap planets will also give you more dice than the 6+ dev builders, giving you a bigger tempo lead.

You may also get some mileage out of produce/ship, though that's unlikely to help you end the game quickly. It may give you a VP edge though.

Group think is wonderful in this game - the guy doing something different will often win!

Cheers,
Graham
Plus, it sounds like they're not getting much in the way of worlds either, which is a further uphill battle in getting enough 6-costs, in time, with relatively fewer dice on hand.
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Adam Blanchard
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I don't often get 6+ devs out. Mostly because the guys that I play with like to rush their builds so I often don't have time to find one that works for me, get it played and supported.

I'm trying to counter their strategy a bit though. Last time I played I did a lot of exploring/discarding and quickly built a green/yellow consuming engine. He hit 12 tiles and I still won with my 8 tiles on the board. That was mostly from consuming VP and a few high point worlds.

There are definitely other strategies to this game than just the 6+ devs.
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