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Subject: MB:P vs KD:M rss

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Khian Foo
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Probably shouldn't compare two different games but the KD:Monster 1.5 surprised me. It's 4 days since it released, the pledge is way higher and more backers. I wonder how good is KD:M ? I think MB should have some element that KD:M has to excite the backers.
 
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Joe Crane
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So what part of exploding kittens should we put into MB to get them to back as well? KDM has a few years of hype and people hearing about it but never being able to play it. MB will be at retail for a reasonable price in the future. I don't see how we can generate a few years of hype in 3 days, for a game that will at least hit 2 million dollars which is a huge success.
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Ben Clapperton
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This is the fourth Kingdom Death KS and the second for Monster. It took years for Adam to build the Kingdom Death brand and create the demand for Monster, so unless you're advocating that Monolith/Mythic Gmes spend around seven years building up demand for Mythic Battles, I'm not sure there's anything it can take from what that campaign is currently doing.
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Manu
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What part of 1.5m and 9.5k backers makes you think there's mo excitement around MB? Must everything be about MOAR and MONEY? Also, why am I even replying to this thread? I will go and consult my shrink right this minute.
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Daniel Guinoza
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khian wrote:
Probably shouldn't compare two different games but the KD:Monster 1.5 surprised me. It's 4 days since it released, the pledge is way higher and more backers. I wonder how good is KD:M ? I think MB should have some element that KD:M has to excite the backers.


I actually think MBP is the sleeper hit, much like KDM was at first launch. We will see bigger numbers when we get the second pantheon and people have had time to check the game out.
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Khian Foo
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I'm sorry if you get offended or angry. I pledged around $500 in this game and I saw the KD:M campaign. Obviously, I'm new to kickstarter board games. Just wondering why KD:M has so much backers and pledge. Considering to switch my pledge
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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khian wrote:
I'm sorry if you get offended or angry. I pledged around $500 in this game and I saw the KD:M campaign. Obviously, I'm new to kickstarter board games. Just wondering why KD:M has so much backers and pledge. Considering to switch my pledge

Kingdom Death is a completely other game .. with mostly VERY stylish and beautiful minis (in my opinion). The game itself is rather complicated and has a steep learning curve though, so it isn't for casual players. While MB has pretty simple base rules but a lot of tactical depth. One thing I particularly like is that you can play it 1 vs 1.

Must admit I have an EB in KD - but I doubt that I will keep it. Very little Stretch Goals that aren't actually add-ons you can buy.

It's going to be extremely expensive if you want a bit more than the core box. You really have a dedicated group of players to make it worth your money. Compared to KD:M, Mythic Battles is very cheap for a great lot of stuff. If you had to buy all that in KD style you'd spend like $3,500, if not more.
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Mike Beiter
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The games are very different.
Kingdom Death Monster is a huge time investment as you are playing in an overarching campaign. Its a commitment for sure.

Where as this game plays in less time and satisfies the desire for epic skirmishes.

It does have a campaign mode too.

It really comes down to what kind of game you prefer more. And like said above, KDM has had years of hype building up.

When MBP does another KS in a few years or whenever, they will no doubt have a lot of hype as well.
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Richard Sampson
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Mythic Battles: Pantheon is not a new game though. It came out 4 years ago as Mythic Battles. Yes, they have tweaked the rules and added a ton of minis, but it is mostly the same game. I think the minis will vastly improve the game, but if it was going to take off, I think it would have done so 4 years ago.
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Michael Johnson
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ras2124 wrote:
Mythic Battles: Pantheon is not a new game though. It came out 4 years ago as Mythic Battles. Yes, they have tweaked the rules and added a ton of minis, but it is mostly the same game. I think the minis will vastly improve the game, but if it was going to take off, I think it would have done so 4 years ago.


Not necessarily. A game's success is also dependent on the publisher to a degree. IELLO, the company who originally published MB, also published and botched Guardians' Chronicles.
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Aditya C
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ras2124 wrote:
Mythic Battles: Pantheon is not a new game though. It came out 4 years ago as Mythic Battles. Yes, they have tweaked the rules and added a ton of minis, but it is mostly the same game. I think the minis will vastly improve the game, but if it was going to take off, I think it would have done so 4 years ago.


The old game was hugely affected by the fact that it didn't have miniatures. The current version does.

Also, for Kingdom Death people have to note that they have pledges of well over 1000 dollars. MB gives a whole lot more minis for a much lower price point, which does also mean that the average pledge is lower.

The later waves of shipments for KD:M is slated for 2020 and beyond! People are quite literally committing for the foreseeable future on that game.
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Dimitris Xs
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A question about KD

Is the 1.5, the game again (that you have to back up) , or an extension?
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Emivaldo Sousa
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ras2124 wrote:
Mythic Battles: Pantheon is not a new game though. It came out 4 years ago as Mythic Battles. Yes, they have tweaked the rules and added a ton of minis, but it is mostly the same game. I think the minis will vastly improve the game, but if it was going to take off, I think it would have done so 4 years ago.


Kickstarter is more about minis than gameplay. If KDM had no minis the story would be different.

To me KDM is all about style, and almost too much about style. The game itself, while not necessarily bad, is just a complicated way of doing simple things, but the art design is ace and the marketing around being a boutique game worked.

MBP is not new to the gaming scene, but is new to the kickstarter game, its minis are not as stylized (although most are cool enough) and they do not have had the luck to become a "fever", which is something no one can control.

What they can control is doing something good enough to be a success on its own merits and I think they achieved that. With time, they might have a bigger footprint.

What I do know is that if I somehow win a all-in pledge for KDM I would probably sell it. It is a time sink that I have no interest in getting into.

MBP on the other hand is just what the doctor ordered for me.
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Emivaldo Sousa
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Dimitris Xs wrote:
A question about KD

Is the 1.5, the game again (that you have to back up) , or an extension?


It is both

Kind of

Maybe

It is a revised ruleset. If you have the other game you can just have the upgrade kit I think.
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Ben Clapperton
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Dimitris Xs wrote:
A question about KD

Is the 1.5, the game again (that you have to back up) , or an extension?


It's both. The game has never gone into distribution. Adam sold a few leftover copies from the KS production run to stores but that's it. It means if you want it you need to back this KS to get it (at least for now). IIRC it costs $350 to get the core game on the current KS, plus more if you want the original set of expansions funded in that first KDM KS. On top of that there is new product being funded on this one which you can get also. If you backed the first one, you can just get the new product and the upgrades on this one.
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honestly, I wasn't really captured from the current KDM 1.5 ks, when I went looking there to see what all the hubbub is about.
Too few actual game info, art design not to my taste and a hefty buy-in.
The few bits about the game mechanics actually looked interesting, however too few to get me motivated to dig deeper than the ks or their homepage.

to be fair, since it is an update ks they probably assume people know the core elements and focus on the new bling, but for a newcomer a bit thin.

in the end money saved with ease

PS: 2020 for delivery on some of the stuff is impressive
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Daniel Guinoza
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khian wrote:
I'm sorry if you get offended or angry. I pledged around $500 in this game and I saw the KD:M campaign. Obviously, I'm new to kickstarter board games. Just wondering why KD:M has so much backers and pledge. Considering to switch my pledge


That would be something you can only answer. If you want help, you'd have to give us more information. We only know you have $500. If I were you, the best value would be to split your pledges in half-half.

Dimitris Xs wrote:
A question about KD

Is the 1.5, the game again (that you have to back up) , or an extension?


There are two versions: veterans who own 1.0 can buy an upgrade pack, and newcomers can buy a new core already updated to 1.5. Yes, it is the same game with minor tweaks.
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Jeff M
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KD:M is an immersive world building game with what is almost a cult following where the player builds their civilization over many KD:M "years", is strong on story building and solo play, makes use of dice, and has incredible miniatures.

MBP looks to be a tactical battle dice game with great miniatures.

I'm signed up for KD:M.
I have other versions of tactical dice chucking games I can play, but nothing like KD:M
Would love to get MBP, but my gaming allowance is used up for awhile.soblue
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Ben Clapperton
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Lowden025 wrote:
KD:M is an immersive world building game with what is almost a cult following where the player builds their civilization over many KD:M "years", is strong on story building and solo play, makes use of dice, and has incredible miniatures.

MBP looks to be a tactical battle dice game with great miniatures.

I'm signed up for KD:M.
I have other versions of tactical dice chucking games I can play, but nothing like KD:M
Would love to get MBP, but my gaming allowance is used up for awhile.soblue
.



Might be worth a $1 pledge on MB just in case you can stretch to a God pledge by the time the pledge manager closes
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Richard Sampson
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zinho73 wrote:
Kickstarter is more about minis than gameplay. If KDM had no minis the story would be different.

To me KDM is all about style, and almost too much about style. The game itself, while not necessarily bad, is just a complicated way of doing simple things, but the art design is ace and the marketing around being a boutique game worked.

MBP is not new to the gaming scene, but is new to the kickstarter game, its minis are not as stylized (although most are cool enough) and they do not have had the luck to become a "fever", which is something no one can control.
I 100% agree. However, the difference here is that KDM has display quality miniatures and has a legacy-style campaign that I think appeals to many people. It is not for everyone, but it does stand out from most of the stuff out there.

MBP, on the other hand, is just another minis skirmish game that I think will have a hard time distinguishing itself. Yes, the KS gives a ton of minis, and I am sure people will have a good time with it, but I don't think it is going to be some break-out sleeper hit in the same vein as something like Blood Rage. I believe if BR didn't have the minis it would still be popular because the underlying game is really good and pretty unique. Mythic Battles pretty much died out because there wasn't enough game there, and I don't think a ton of minis is going to change that once the KS is over.
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Anthony Avelar
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I saw this too and thought, "Should I be backing Kingdom Death?" I have read about KDM for years and have heard a ton of the hype. I even remember when it was the first KS. It looks really cool and has some amazing miniatures. Here are the reasons to not back it.

1)You have to assemble miniatures and they are really hard to assemble.
2)There are so many games that are coop adventure games that have miniatures. Most of the time it is really hard to get players to play.
3)The rules seem very convoluted and it is a big undertaking.
4)The fulfillment for KDM has been really bad in the past.

I understand that there are a ton of people out there that love the game and say it is the most creative game ever. This is almost a lifestyle game because it does have a ton of content and takes a lot of time just to start. If you have plenty of time to devote to it then I would definitely get the game.

I am backing Mythic Battles and not KDM because MB is different than most of the other games that I have kickstarted. It also seems very easy to teach. It is also nice that the miniatures don't have to be assembled like Shadows of Brimstone. I also think it is a great two player game which means it is easier to find people to play it.
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Jeff M
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redben wrote:
Lowden025 wrote:
KD:M is an immersive world building game with what is almost a cult following where the player builds their civilization over many KD:M "years", is strong on story building and solo play, makes use of dice, and has incredible miniatures.

MBP looks to be a tactical battle dice game with great miniatures.

I'm signed up for KD:M.
I have other versions of tactical dice chucking games I can play, but nothing like KD:M
Would love to get MBP, but my gaming allowance is used up for awhile.soblue
.



Might be worth a $1 pledge on MB just in case you can stretch to a God pledge by the time the pledge manager closes


I was just thinking that. Dang.
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Steve
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Like others have said, these two games could not be any different. One is a proper miniature skirmish game (think deadzone, Infinity, Wild West Exodus) with a neat twist of some board game elements. It plays fast and is pretty straight forward. KDM is something entirely different and is a much more time demanding/immersive experiance. As far as comparing pledge funds, a lot goes into that. The likely reason that KDM is getting such high numbers is because there has been a lot of anticipation for this reprint, the game has been almost universally liked for its unique gameplay, and it is being offered for very near half of its retail price.

I personally had to pick between MBP or KDM. I picked KDM because I have been fascinated by the gameplay for a long time and it being offered half off its retail price was too good to pass up. Remember this is a game that was going for over 1k once it sold out. I do not agree with someone above saying its all about the minis. I would actually prefer a non-mini version and I think comments like that discount the great game play that players and other major reviewers have spoke of.

So for the reason above, as well as some other reasons, (problems with Conan, not rich enough for both, ect.) I passed on Pantheon. That said, I do hope that one day they do come out with a different Pantheon theme like they have suggested they would. I am much more interested in the other themes mentioned when compared to the one offered now. For me personally, miniature combat games 100% come down to how cool the minis are because there are so many to choose from and a lot have had unique dice mechanics and other fun mechanics for ages. I personally play Wild West Exodus, 40k, and Mars Attacks.

Do some research and look at what you think is best. At a very basic level MBP is a lighter 60 minute skirmish game (not a slight, I love that about it) and KDM is a much more time requiring activity. You need to build all the models (I find this relaxing) and a full campaign (if you live) is now 25 or 30 1 to 3 hour games. It is much more a civilization builder style game built on immersion. They are both good games, but not for everyone.
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Aditya C
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ras2124 wrote:

MBP, on the other hand, is just another minis skirmish game that I think will have a hard time distinguishing itself. Yes, the KS gives a ton of minis, and I am sure people will have a good time with it, but I don't think it is going to be some break-out sleeper hit in the same vein as something like Blood Rage. I believe if BR didn't have the minis it would still be popular because the underlying game is really good and pretty unique. Mythic Battles pretty much died out because there wasn't enough game there, and I don't think a ton of minis is going to change that once the KS is over.


At least from all the reviews I read about the original, this wasn't the case. It just didn't have enough units in the base set so all the games wound up being very static since you ended up using almost all the units available in every game with just two possible gods. The current iteration fixes that drastically and also removes the fiddliness of using a ton of cards to represent one unit's changing stats and instead going with the stat board + clips route.

There are plenty of legacy-type RPGs out there too. KD:M just stands out as a very highly produced version with some unique mechanics (like the AI system).
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Max Maloney
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This is purely a matter of personal taste and will vary from person to person.

In my view, KD:M is driven by hype for the taboo imagery and super high-end minis. I find the game system to be very antiquated and uninspiring. It plays like games being made in the 80s. Also, the minis are for serious hobbyists who love assembly and painting: that's not me but you presumably know if it's you.

So I would choose MB between these two, but your opinion may be the opposite for all I know.
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