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Subject: The most holding you will ever see in a football game. rss

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Brian Morris
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Here's the set up. Ravens are up 19-12 in the game. It's 4th down with 11 seconds left. They have to run a play. Your options are (a) punt and risk a touchdown return. (b) Just run out the clock they risk turning the ball over at the end of the field with time on the clock. The answer? (c)! Look like you are going to punt but then have your guys hold every guy on the field. The Ravens just about duck taped the Bengal players to the ground and since while the game can't end on a defensive penalty but they are on offense you might as well.

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David Molnar
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Announcers couldn't quite figure that out?

Also I don't see how there's a safety if the punter steps out of bounds after time has expired.
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Obviously a designed play by Baltimore since most of those weren't HOLDING so much as practically TACKLING.

A level of cynicism worthy of Bill Belichick.

And boy, were those announcers clueless.

"Why are there no white shirts near the punter?"

"Because they're all being tackled, morons."
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molnar wrote:
Announcers couldn't quite figure that out?

LOL. "No one is rushing the kicker!" "Cook was WAITING for someone to rush him!"

Quote:
Also I don't see how there's a safety if the punter steps out of bounds after time has expired.

A touchdown or field goal can happen after time runs out during a play. Are there special rules for a safety?
 
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Brian Morris
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molnar wrote:
Announcers couldn't quite figure that out?


Yeah, the announcers were as surprised as the Bengals by what the Ravens did so they didn't quite understand the logic of it at the time.

Quote:
Also I don't see how there's a safety if the punter steps out of bounds after time has expired.


The play is still going on even after the time expires. The clock expiring simply means this is the last play.

The game itself can not end on a defensive penalty. The Ravens however are on offense and if the Bengals commit a penalty on defense the Ravens can simply decline it and the game is over. I've seen games end with the punter running out the clock but never for this long. Usually it's 5 or 6 seconds. Here they needed 11 and they didn't have enough room for the punter to run around for 11 seconds, thus they held....tackled...duck taped to the ground every Bengals player on the field. Except the punt returner. The Bengals had a punt returner back in the normal spot who watched all this happen.

Bengals fans are still complaining about this but I think it was pure brilliance.
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It looks like the Ravens were favored by 3.5 points. This play almost (but not quite) made a lot of gamblers very angry.
 
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Toss all 11 players on the field and the coach and restart the game.
 
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One of the reasons I love soccer is that we have a rule for this sort of thing. If you break the rules to waste time, you just add time on. If they break the rules badly enough, you send them off. I think this would be a yellow for unsporting behavior and then add the time back onto the end of the game. Man, football makes no sense...
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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I hate to see coaches and players game the system like that, however brilliant it was. Which is one of the reasons I hate basketball so much. They don't even pretend to avoid fouls anymore, making the notion that they are "fouls" at all a farce.

In my perfect world, the refs would have flexibility to deny them whatever it is they were trying to get out of their pure insolence toward the rules. Declare it unsportsmanlike conduct or what have you, eject a few people from the game, reset the clock and the play, and go from there.

But I'm not a big sports fan, so I guess do whatever you want .
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Agent J
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ejmowrer wrote:
I hate to see coaches and players game the system like that, however brilliant it was. Which is one of the reasons I hate basketball so much. They don't even pretend to avoid fouls anymore, making the notion that they are "fouls" at all a farce.

In my perfect world, the refs would have flexibility to deny them whatever it is they were trying to get out of their pure insolence toward the rules. Declare it unsportsmanlike conduct or what have you, eject a few people from the game, reset the clock and the play, and go from there.

But I'm not a big sports fan, so I guess do whatever you want .


I don't know. I guess I can admire their ingenuity but I'm with you. The rules shouldn't allow breaking them to help you win a game. That's why DOGSO (denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity) in soccer was an automatic red card for a long time... a goal is such a big deal that you would have to play short the rest of the game and miss your next game automatically for breaking the rules and denying a goal via a foul or handling.
 
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The Ravens did the exact same thing to end their Super Bowl victory against the 49ers, so no one (least of all the Bengals) should be surprised at this.

The NFL has rules to handle this. Basically, a team can pull whatever crap they want once. If they do the same kind of thing a second time, it's called a "palpably unfair act", the down is replayed, and the time elapsed is restored to the clock, making the second attempt pointless. But if you only have to do it once (like at the end of a game), massive holding like this is clearly the proper play.

You can scream at the Ravens if you want, but as long as the league includes this loophole, they'd be delinquent if they didn't do this. I agree it seems wrong, so maybe the rulemakers will look at changing things. But this rule has been around a long time, so I wouldn't say it's a sure thing that they'll be any changes. Until then, expect to see a lot of holding in similar situations.
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It's my opinion they should remove the loophole. That's just an opinion and matters as much as any other opinion, which is not at all.

To me, this is a play full of unnecessary roughness personal fouls.
 
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The easy fix is for the case where there the game ends in an offensive penalty give the defense the option to roll back the clock.
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Games can't end on a defensive penalty. They could simply say the same thing for offense.
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matthean wrote:
Games can't end on a defensive penalty. They could simply say the same thing for offense.


In this case the penalty would have been accepted and the game would have had one more un-timed down and the the Ravens would just have knelt on it to end the game.

The rule change would have to put time back on the clock to stop this from happening.
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Jythier wrote:
It's my opinion they should remove the loophole. That's just an opinion


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Sky Knight X wrote:
matthean wrote:
Games can't end on a defensive penalty. They could simply say the same thing for offense.


In this case the penalty would have been accepted and the game would have had one more un-timed down and the the Ravens would just have knelt on it to end the game.

The rule change would have to put time back on the clock to stop this from happening.


There was a safety. The Ravens would had to have punted.
 
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It's like Charles Goren bidding to the 8 level to keep opponents out of slam. It's illegal---now.
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It's disgusting and a disgrace to the game. Hopefully the NFL will close the loophole in the rules. If they don't, this will keep happening.
 
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Jythier wrote:
One of the reasons I love soccer is that we have a rule for this sort of thing. If you break the rules to waste time, you just add time on. If they break the rules badly enough, you send them off. I think this would be a yellow for unsporting behavior and then add the time back onto the end of the game. Man, football makes no sense...


Clock management however is a part of football strategy.
 
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LennyS wrote:
Jythier wrote:
It's my opinion they should remove the loophole. That's just an opinion


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mrbeankc wrote:
Jythier wrote:
One of the reasons I love soccer is that we have a rule for this sort of thing. If you break the rules to waste time, you just add time on. If they break the rules badly enough, you send them off. I think this would be a yellow for unsporting behavior and then add the time back onto the end of the game. Man, football makes no sense...


Clock management however is a part of football strategy.

A part that nearly every team is absolutely terrible at! It drives me nuts watching this aspect of NFL games.
 
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mrbeankc wrote:
Jythier wrote:
One of the reasons I love soccer is that we have a rule for this sort of thing. If you break the rules to waste time, you just add time on. If they break the rules badly enough, you send them off. I think this would be a yellow for unsporting behavior and then add the time back onto the end of the game. Man, football makes no sense...


Clock management however is a part of football strategy.


Breaking rules should never help your team, in my opinion. The rules are there to make the game fair. Those 'fouls' at the end of a basketball game to get the ball back should be called as technicals, 2 free throws and then they get the ball back. Do that and it ends. Same here - make them manage the clock without committing fouls.
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matthean wrote:
Sky Knight X wrote:
matthean wrote:
Games can't end on a defensive penalty. They could simply say the same thing for offense.


In this case the penalty would have been accepted and the game would have had one more un-timed down and the the Ravens would just have knelt on it to end the game.

The rule change would have to put time back on the clock to stop this from happening.


There was a safety. The Ravens would had to have punted.


Not if the Bengals had accepted the penalty.

Either
1. Decline the penalty, the play stands, safety, game over.

2. Or (if the game can't end on an offense penalty), accept the penalty, move the ball back 10 yards, replay an un-timed 4th down, kneel, game over.
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