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Subject: Won't Tom Vasel give Netrunner Another Chance? rss

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Tommy Roman
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I was watching another episode of the Dice Tower and Tom & crew were ranking games that they shouldn't like, but still do (for whatever reason).

http://www.dicetower.com/game-video/top-10-exceptions-rule. ANR section begins @ 48:22.

ANR was awarded the #2 spot by Tom himself, who went on to cite that the vocabulary (two different terms like "heap" and "archives" used to describe the same locations for each player) and complexity were both perceived as negatives. Perhaps most of us see the extra terms as befitting an symmetric game, as we have also recognized the evolving complexities of an expanding card pool and edge interactions highly dependent on the consistent application of the timing sequence.

The DT had already listed ANR as one of the games that they would likely never play again (http://www.dicetower.com/game-video/top-10-games-we-wanted-d...), so I'm a little confused why it is also appearing on this list.

I have a lot of respect for Tom Vasel and the work that he does to promote many different styles of games, but I just wish that he did not have the negative experience he apparently did when ANR was in its formative stages. Perhaps with the upcoming release of Terminal Directive, he might give this excellent (but complex) game another chance.
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I have a lot of respect for Tom and appreciate what he does too... but frankly I care as much about him saying that Netrunner would replace CE as his all time favorite game as I do if he said he was going to burn all his cards and never play again. Either decision, or anything in between, doesn't change my enjoyment of the game.


Also, let's be honest he does have a valid point that I've certainly heard before from other people... while it may make it more thematic, from a pure learning the game POV renaming everything from the conventional norms can create a steeper learning curve/be off putting to some people.
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Brad Miller
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Why do you care what someone else thinks about a game? Never understood the need some folks have to have everyone like what you do.

Of course, I've never thought much of Tom's quantity beats quality approach to reviewing, (been here long enough to remember when Tom showed up here). Certainly has been lucrative for him though, and he has built a nice cult following...
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Mike Nunes
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I hold Tom in high regards, as I credit him for introducing me into the world of Table Top Gaming. I also watch his channel all the time. Just because he doesn't like Netrunner as much as he used to, doesn't mean the game has lost any merit.

If there are people out there that won't play any game because it's not in Tom's Top 100 (or whatever the case may be), then they are intentionally shorting themselves some amazing game time.
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Larry Witte
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Netrunner is incompatible with playing a variety of games. It's called a lifestyle game for a reason.

I dedicated three years to Netrunner, watching videos, reading blogs and websites, and playing online and in as many tournaments as I could. I was always a terrible to middling player, but enjoyed the game enough to stick with it.

I just sold my collection and have begun to play the other games I purchased but ignored for years. At this point Tom Vassal would face a steep learning curve with all the new cards and interactions. Netrunner is a great game.and still my favorite, but getting out of it has been a liberating experience.

Tom can't return to Netrunner without neglecting his obligation to play and review dozens of other games. That should be no concern to the dedicated Netrunners.
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Tommy Roman
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Quote:
Why do you care what someone else thinks about a game? Never understood the need some folks have to have everyone like what you do.


I personally don't care if Tom thinks negatively of Netrunner, because I enjoy it regardless of his opinion. We've disagreed on a number of reviewed games before and will do likely do so in the future. However, I also recognize that Tom is a respected reviewer and has the capacity to influence a new player's decision about whether or not to continue with ANR. There's nothing he said that isn't true about the game's few flaws- but his overall tone seems to me a bit discouraging. I want new players to go into this game with eyes open, but also knowing that their efforts are worth the commitment.

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If there are people out there that won't play any game because it's not in Tom's Top 100 (or whatever the case may be), then they are intentionally shorting themselves some amazing game time.


So true.

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Netrunner is incompatible with playing a variety of games. It's called a lifestyle game for a reason.


Respectfully disagree, although I concede your viewpoint as a professional player shuffling from stores, regionals and perhaps Worlds. It is also illustrative of one of ANR's key issues- the current lack of support for casual players (which hopefully this next major expansion will address).
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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tommygunn2011 wrote:
However, I also recognize that Tom is a respected reviewer and has the capacity to influence a new player's decision about whether or not to continue with ANR.


No, that's an illusion. Tom could make the game popular so that it would bring new players to the game (and I'm sure he did just that, back in the day), but certainly he has no power to tell people "whether or not to continue with ANR". This game isn't based on reviewer's popularity. It's based on your local community. And since it's a lifestyle game, people have to make their own decisions, whether they want to invest time and money, again and again. These kind of decisions are bolstered by local parties, fellow players, FLGS, tournaments, atmosphere. Not by a reviewer.
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Tommy Roman
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Point taken. Unfortunately, a prospective player will never even seek out the potential of an active, supportive community if they choose to put stock in a popular reviewer's position. That's why I hope Tom and crew give ANR another chance.
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Aaron E.
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rattkin wrote:
tommygunn2011 wrote:
However, I also recognize that Tom is a respected reviewer and has the capacity to influence a new player's decision about whether or not to continue with ANR.


No, that's an illusion. Tom could make the game popular so that it would bring new players to the game (and I'm sure he did just that, back in the day), but certainly he has no power to tell people "whether or not to continue with ANR". This game isn't based on reviewer's popularity. It's based on your local community. And since it's a lifestyle game, people have to make their own decisions, whether they want to invest time and money, again and again. These kind of decisions are bolstered by local parties, fellow players, FLGS, tournaments, atmosphere. Not by a reviewer.


Hmm, I don't know how you can be so sure as to say that a reviewer's influence is an illusion. Consider a player like myself. I have essentially no meta, and I have to drive 3 hours to get any sort of organized play. I'm still playing, purchasing cards, participating in forum discussion, and attempting to get people interested. But right now my community is completely online, and this community extends to the reviewers I watch everyday, including Tom Vasel and Quintin Smith (the reviewer that got me into Netrunner). If those people start saying they're not playing anymore, you think they have no influence on my opinion?

So in short, yes I agree with you if we're talking about people who play in a community, but what if you don't?
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Elijah
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Is your post a plea or a request?

Who cares what Tom (or anyone else) thinks about it - anything for that matter!
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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tommygunn2011 wrote:
Point taken. Unfortunately, a prospective player will never even seek out the potential of an active, supportive community if they choose to put stock in a popular reviewer's position. That's why I hope Tom and crew give ANR another chance.


That's true, but from what I can tell, people who play competitive card games most often aren't boardgame reviewer's crowd. They either don't care about board games, or take pride in trying stuff and making their own opinion.

Besides, folks, Tom already did the review of Netrunner, right? He liked it a lot, he was just honest about his own stance towards competitive LCG and deckbuilding, between the lines he said that he wanted to play it more, he just didn't have time. And we know that this game requires time. I'd say he did his fair share in attracting people to the game. It's not like reviewers are obliged to "re-review" long-lasting games, to maintain the attraction.

Just bark the right tree. If you want positive reinforcement, listen to podcasts and watch Team Covenant, not Tom. That's not Tom's playground.

MrAaronSA wrote:

Hmm, I don't know how you can be so sure as to say that a reviewer's influence is an illusion.


Because there's no data that would suggest otherwise for competitive card games. For instance, did any reviewer tell anyone to play Magic: The Gathering?

MrAaronSA wrote:
this community extends to the reviewers I watch everyday, including Tom Vasel and Quintin Smith (the reviewer that got me into Netrunner). If those people start saying they're not playing anymore, you think they have no influence on my opinion?


If would hope so, they do not. Otherwise, that would paint a pretty sad world.

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So in short, yes I agree with you if we're talking about people who play in a community, but what if you don't?


There is no Netrunner (or any other competitive card game) without community. As harsh as it may sound, that's how it is. You have to have people to play with. People learning with you, evolving with you, people worse than you, people better than you. What good is a competitive card game, if you just look at it in binder? And if it's online, why do you expect the board game reviewer to influence the online crowd?
 
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Tommy Roman
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Just bark the right tree. If you want positive reinforcement, listen to podcasts and watch Team Covenant, not Tom.


Although I'm a fan of TC, there hasn't been a lot of recent ANR content. Most of the current vids are focused on Star Wars (X-wing, Armada and now Destiny) or AGOT 2nd ed. Would love to see them do more ANR matches and DP reviews (the way they used to).

I've been mostly watching Bewnt and TeamworkCast YT channels.
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Josh
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wittela wrote:
Netrunner is incompatible with playing a variety of games. It's called a lifestyle game for a reason.

I dedicated three years to Netrunner, watching videos, reading blogs and websites, and playing online and in as many tournaments as I could. I was always a terrible to middling player, but enjoyed the game enough to stick with it.

I just sold my collection and have begun to play the other games I purchased but ignored for years. At this point Tom Vassal would face a steep learning curve with all the new cards and interactions. Netrunner is a great game.and still my favorite, but getting out of it has been a liberating experience.

Tom can't return to Netrunner without neglecting his obligation to play and review dozens of other games. That should be no concern to the dedicated Netrunners.


I quite enjoy netrunner casually, X-wing as well, while the majority of my gwming is done with traditional board games. The finwncial investment in Netrunner isn't high enough to be a lifestyle game.

Tom on the other hand burns through games like a chain smoker. I can comoletely see how he wouldn't bother with netrunner. He only plays M:TG with preconstructed decks, and those are more rare with Netrunnet.
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Mark
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I don't care that Tom Vasel dislikes something I don't, lol why on earth would you care.
 
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Nigel McNaughton
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Akeno wrote:
I don't care that Tom Vasel dislikes something I don't, lol why on earth would you care.


Well I'm glad you took the time to make sure we were all aware of how little you care and bring this thread back up.
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W. Cracker
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Just one man's opinion. I think ANR is great, especially the more I play and explore new strategies. Of course the fact I'm undefeated doesn't hurt my opinion either
 
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Derrick Billings
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the fact I'm undefeated


If you're "exploring new strategies" and are still undefeated I'm wondering who you're playing with, whether you're playing both sides, and maybe whether you're playing all the rules correctly.
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