Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
23 Posts

Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! (second edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Hit Markers rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Peter
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi All,

I play ASL but there is time when I prefer something easier. So here I am learning the COH system and reading up on the Hit Markers in the rulebook.

The way Hit Markers are used in the game kind of makes no sense to me.

Example: There two Stunned hit markers that come the game, say I randomly picked up two of these markers from a cup (as a result of enemy fire) and now two of my infantry units in the firefight have them. Now, considering I won't try to remove the two Stunned hit Markers from my infantry units for the reminder of the firefight scenario, no other infantry unit can ever be marked as Stunned ...since...there are only two markers in the game box.

Am I reading this right? This makes no sense to me, I feel like a dear in a headlights right now.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MICHAEL MCGUIRE
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Until you get hit a second time and die. Then the stunned counter goes back in the cup.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
CommanderMcG wrote:
Until you get hit a second time and die. Then the stunned counter goes back in the cup.


Sorry, this does not answer my question. I'm aware of what you are saying.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alfy Burger
Mali
Bamako
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The hit markers are not meant to stay very long on the board. Because a second hit means death, rallying is a big priority, so markers go back rather soon a way or another. But yes, markers on the board affect probabilities of getting certain results. You can print additional markers instead and put those on the board, keeping the correct mix in the bag, it'll make more sense at the expense of a bit more work.
3 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alfy Burger
Mali
Bamako
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Note that if you come from ASL, you'll find some design decisions meant to keep the game simple a tad jarring at times (it just feels simplistic, to be clear). Personally, I feel the game does not play that well with the original rules: have a look at the variant section for some much needed modifications on damage and opportunity fire.
1 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thank you Alfy Burger, that answers my question!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Schenck
United States
Dayton
Ohio
flag msg tools
GO BUCKS!
badge
Stop touching me!
mbmbmbmbmb
As a quick side note, one of the folks from Academy Games has mentioned liking the idea of each faction having their own set of damage markers, which could be customized to highlight the weaknesses of each faction. Even a particular scenario could be customized. Maybe for a particular scenario, the German forces are highly demoralized and surrounded, so they start with a bunch more "Panicked" tokens.

Remember that CoH is a game system rather than just a standalone game. Have fun playing the rules and scenarios as written, but don't be afraid to explore your own ideas and come up with customizations. It's a giant sandbox of gaming fun.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Carey
United States
Woodinville
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The Guadalcanal game has separate hit markers for the Japanese and the US.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the further feedback. I noticed that the game has exactly 20 hit markers. Each type having a specific number, so I will make a d20 table for myself. 1 number for Kia, 2 numbers for Stunned, 5 numbers for Pinned etc so that I preserve that ratio of the type of markers. The hit markers that come with the game will be in the opaque cap. I will then make my own hit markets that will be actually placed on the units on the map.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MICHAEL MCGUIRE
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Post those to the file section after you've made them so we can all have a go at it.
Thank you.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alfy Burger
Mali
Bamako
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
cbs42 wrote:
As a quick side note, one of the folks from Academy Games has mentioned liking the idea of each faction having their own set of damage markers, which could be customized to highlight the weaknesses of each faction. Even a particular scenario could be customized. Maybe for a particular scenario, the German forces are highly demoralized and surrounded, so they start with a bunch more "Panicked" tokens


It's a great concept, but it's completely underused at the moment. Apart from Guadalcanal, there isn't a single scenario that uses this option. It would have been a fantastic option for the firefight generator by the way, but for now, it's really just a missed opportunity that skews results if used as told by the rulebook.

cbs42 wrote:
Remember that CoH is a game system rather than just a standalone game. Have fun playing the rules and scenarios as written, but don't be afraid to explore your own ideas and come up with customizations. It's a giant sandbox of gaming fun.


I do like the game (although I've mostly bought it for its solo expansion and will switch to LnLT once they release theirs), but I find it hard to share your optimism. It's very much a standalone game with expansions rather than a system, and I can't see how it is a sandbox.

I also prefer if at all possible to be able to play a game as-is rather than being forced to tinker with it, but found I had no choice with CoH. I appreciated seeing the designer participating on the variant forum, and seeing him getting excited about some proposed modifications, but this has not resulted in changes in the rulebook despite some signs that might happen.

So I end up with this gorgeous game with homemade paper chits, and these elegant rules with homemade addenda, and I can't help but wish CoH didn't have to be such a Frankenstein monster.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff M
United States
Lafayette
California
flag msg tools
mb
AlfyB wrote:

(although I've mostly bought it for its solo expansion and will switch to LnLT once they release theirs),



What is "LnLT"?

(Edit...never mind. Found it by looking on the BGG Wargame rankings...page 2, "Lock'n Load: Band of Brothers, going to that page, finding the expansion "Lock'n Load: Tactical". I must say, the artwork on the original Lock'n Load: Band of Brothers" box is much more aesthetically pleasing than on "Tactical". That face doesn't put me in mind of a battle hardened veteran...more like, to steal another forum members description, Jim in accounting. )
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alfy Burger
Mali
Bamako
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
LnLT is the name of the system (and it's a system: it covers the modern era as well). I was thinking specifically of Heroes of Normandy, which indeed has a rather suspect mug on its cover. And indeed, I think it's Jim from accounting...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Danick Cloutier
Canada
St-Fabien
Québec
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
AlfyB wrote:
Note that if you come from ASL, you'll find some design decisions meant to keep the game simple a tad jarring at times (it just feels simplistic, to be clear). Personally, I feel the game does not play that well with the original rules: have a look at the variant section for some much needed modifications on damage and opportunity fire.


For my part I don't think the game needs Opp fire.
You are given many "Opp Fire" opportunities I think in the game such as it is. I do an action, you do one and so on. You move, I fire. I fire, you fire. For me that's opp fire. It's just don't called that in the game since there is no real need for it.

Keep those action cards and some Caps and maybe some fresh units and there you go.

Well that's just my opinion but that's always how I have seen the game.





1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alfy Burger
Mali
Bamako
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, it was included in the game game (opportunity actions, rule 3.1), specifically with a mention about CAPs and cards:

"Designer's Note: Taking an opportunity action with a fresh unit is often less efficient than waiting to activate the unit later in the round. But sometimes a player needs to immediately react to a situation with a unit, without marking the activated unit as spent or using CAPs or cards."

I don't think you would want the game to be entirely about manœuvring your opponent into running out of CAPs and cards so you can run around unharmed. It may be tactically interesting, but it has little to do with the subject the game attempts to portray.

But the actual issue many had with the rule was about the fact the cost was deeply unequal depending on how many APs firing cost you: if your unit can only fire once per turn, your not losing much by marking it spent. If it can fire twice, it's a big difference. Hence the reason for some the forum to adopt a variation of the rules introduced by the solo module.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Danick Cloutier
Canada
St-Fabien
Québec
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
AlfyB wrote:
Well, it was included in the game game (opportunity actions, rule 3.1), specifically with a mention about CAPs and cards:

"Designer's Note: Taking an opportunity action with a fresh unit is often less efficient than waiting to activate the unit later in the round. But sometimes a player needs to immediately react to a situation with a unit, without marking the activated unit as spent or using CAPs or cards."

I don't think you would want the game to be entirely about manœuvring your opponent into running out of CAPs and cards so you can run around unharmed. It may be tactically interesting, but it has little to do with the subject the game attempts to portray.

But the actual issue many had with the rule was about the fact the cost was deeply unequal depending on how many APs firing cost you: if your unit can only fire once per turn, your not losing much by marking it spent. If it can fire twice, it's a big difference. Hence the reason for some the forum to adopt a variation of the rules introduced by the solo module.


1) But an Opportunity Action can be anything. Rally, move, fire, hide and hasty defenses.

2)You mean using the Order Cards to check if a unit is spent after an action instead of activating a unit? Or using the chits method from Once Upon A Game(if I remember the name correctly)?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alfy Burger
Mali
Bamako
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
1/ Yes, it can be any action, although completely spending a unit to move it one hex is... rare. But if you use it to fire, it's pretty much opportunity fire.

2/ Using a card to check if the unit is spent (or better, using a die: the probability of the deck changes as cards are drawn). Personnally, I only use this rule for a fire action: it gives the defending side a realistic edge, and I'm perfectly fine having units firing a few times considering the flexible timescale of one CoH turn.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Danick Cloutier
Canada
St-Fabien
Québec
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
AlfyB wrote:

2/ Using a card to check if the unit is spent (or better, using a die: the probability of the deck changes as cards are drawn). Personnally, I only use this rule for a fire action: it gives the defending side a realistic edge, and I'm perfectly fine having units firing a few times considering the flexible timescale of one CoH turn.


Can you elabore about using a die roll but only for fire action?
You use the cards for moving/rallying but roll a die for fire? Or it is something else?

Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alfy Burger
Mali
Bamako
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I meant I check if a unit is spent using a die roll after an opportunity fire (it is spent on a result equal or less to the cost of the action). I do not check for any other action, in those cases, the unit is spent according to the rulebook, period.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Danick Cloutier
Canada
St-Fabien
Québec
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ok, I understand. You only roll a die after an Opportunity Fire Action, not every Fire Action a unit does.

Interesting.

Thank you, sir.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alfy Burger
Mali
Bamako
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
You're most welcome.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
JG53_Jaguar wrote:
The way Hit Markers are used in the game kind of makes no sense to me.

It's an abstraction which enables a quick easy way of giving and marking a variety of combat results. (As later comments note, the markers will typically return to the pool quickly as your units take a second hit and die or are rallied.)

FWIW a similar mechanism is used in Fighting Formations: Grossdeutschland Motorized Infantry Division (and various other wargames which I'm not remembering at the moment.)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
CommanderMcG wrote:
Post those to the file section after you've made them so we can all have a go at it.
Thank you.


Actually, I think it's even easier to use the current hit markers as chits. When I need to draw a hit marker, I will simply draw one and based on the selection I will put the same type custom made hit marker on the affected unit then the original hit marker that was drawn goes back to the cup and the game continues.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.