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Subject: My thoughts on the new heroes rss

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Jeremy Steward
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I have just finished up my 2nd module of a new campaign with the Outsider, Swashbuckler, Acolyte (going Necro), & Archer (going Duelist), and I wanted to share my thoughts on the new heroes now that they are Journeyman ready.


The Outsider

The Outsider is a powerful and well-rounded hero that is somewhat similar to the Soldier but with some significant play-style differences. He uses the Malice resource pool to power his attacks. A lot of his cards can function without malice but are buffed by spending malice, such as turning an action into a reaction or reducing AP cost. Unlike the Soldier, the Outsider focuses primarily on single target damage. He has a few cards that can attack multiple targets but they either have conditions to be played or the targets have to be aligned just right to get treasure (1 behind and 2 in line in front). On the flip side, he has Sky Lance, which is a 3 damage attack with built in movement and Mind Splinter (of which there is also an adv version), which is a range 10, 4 dmg attack if you spend 4 malice.

The Outsider starts with a few decent cards for malice generation but with gear such as the malice generating 2 handers, and an accessory with +FD like Kira's Tear (combined with the adv ongoing: I am Hate, which gives malice for every Darkness rolled), the Outsider will rarely be starving for Malice.

The Outsider is a competent tank, and is arguably better than the Soldier at first. He has a couple of powerful taunts that remove enemy dice, but these come at the cost of activating the darkness sooner, which can be bad in some situations such as against a boss or if a lair is active. The Soldier will outpace the Outsider as he gears up, however if you forgo the 2-hander for a main hand and shield, the Outsider can tank just as well, at least until the Soldier becomes a Warrior.

He also has the "path" cards, which are support cards that generally have a cost to the one receiving the buff. He can do a variety of things including +1 damage, -2 AP, and neat things like allowing heroes to discard cards and draw new ones. In addition, He has, in my opinion, the strongest NCA card in the game. It is an action, but it gives him 2 d10s, and he can spend 2 malice to automatically succeed the test - very handy for high TN NCAs.

Overall, the Outsider is a fun class to play and is also very powerful, being on the upper end of the hero power scale. In Journeyman, he receives a pretty big damage boost with 3 new cards that do damage (2 single target, 1 aoe), as well as a few new path cards, but only 1 card related to tanking.



The Swashbuckler

The Swashbuckler is a very powerful dpser that is very similar to a tactician-style Brigand (The Pirate and Tactician are basically the same in terms of play style). While the Swashbuckler does not have a unique mechanic, other than dual wielding, his style of dps is different than what we have seen before. The Swashbuckler has several reaction attacks, cards that allow him to attack with both his main hand and his offhand, and many interrupt cards which can become rush attacks. Combined with the fact that he has few support/utility cards, this allows him to generate a staggering amount of attacks each turn, even if he only has a single card that can do 3 dmg at once (and it is an adv card). The Swashbuckler also has an impressive amount of mobility, with 2 Hustle, 2 Tumble (move 3 squares and attack) and 2 dash attacks.

The Swashbuckler also deals with large groups of minions very well as he has cards that activate when he is surrounded by 4 or more enemies and he has 2 copies of A Walk among Thorns, a dash 2 attack, that gains an additional 2 dash for every interrupt played on it (There are 11 interrupts in the base deck, & 1 adv interrupt, so it is not too difficult to get to Dash 6 or 8).

Overall, while the Swashbuckler really only does one thing, it does that one thing really really well. Honestly, I believe the Swashbuckler is a little too powerful (tho not quite enough to break the game). My issue is mainly with A Walk among Thorns, he is already powerful without it and the extreme strength of this card (and the fact he has 2) is what pushes him into overpowered territory (in my opinion).

The Pirate has an extremely powerful 5 dmg card and the rest are mainly utility cards and interrupts. Some of those Utility cards do interesting things like stealing andmaking the darkness not activate until 10 AP, while others relate to damage like adding a success or searching your deck and playing it. As per Kenny, Chance 1 allows him to re-roll 1 die once per hero cycle, which is pretty cool.



I also did some different things with my other 2 characters (Archer and Acolyte):

The first module I did was the very good No Rest for the Weary module by Phorin and it contains a treasure hoard that you get with an TN: 9 (no problem for the Outsider!). The problem with the Duelist is that it has very specific gear requirements to work properly but the hoard allowed me to get what I needed early. I fetched the extra ammo accessory (2 ammo and retrieves ammo from discard) and the offhand pistol (which also holds 2 ammo). It didn't change my playstyle as much as I thought it would, as I still relied mostly on Orion's Tears, but it did smooth out the dps downtime of the Archer and allowed me to attack on turns I wouldn't normally be able to. I was also able to pick up the new Hand Crossbow late into the 2nd module which is a main hand that also carries 2 ammo. This will give me a fair amount of versatility going into Journeyman.

Early in my 2nd module (Rise of the Revenant), I pulled the wand item and gave it to my Acolyte. This allowed me to use Smite and the adv card Dirge of Twilight much more frequently and drastically changed my play style. It was quite fun. You were able to do this before the Journeyman expansions but it was new to me . The extra d10 of the Necromancer will also go a long way in making up for the single d10 on the wand item.


So yeah, I have already started shredding up the first Act of the new module and should soon be seeing what the Gat'rs are made of.
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Boots
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Thanks for this write-up. Breaking out myth for the first time in a year tomorrow. Can't wait to see how they work.

One thing about the swashbuckler - does the weird syntax regarding the dual wield weapon - "it activates immediately" - occur anywhere else in Myth? There's no rule for item activation anywhere in the 2.0 rules, and attacks come from the attack card, not the weapon.

Another head-scratchingly bizarre step back from coherence.
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Jeremy Steward
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Boots01 wrote:
Thanks for this write-up. Breaking out myth for the first time in a year tomorrow. Can't wait to see how they work.

One thing about the swashbuckler - does the weird syntax regarding the dual wield weapon - "it activates immediately" - occur anywhere else in Myth? There's no rule for item activation anywhere in the 2.0 rules, and attacks come from the attack card, not the weapon.

Another head-scratchingly bizarre step back from coherence.


I asked this question earlier on the Megacon forum -It is a free rush attack. But yeah, I definitely agree that it should have been worded better or explained.
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Joe Price
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Boots01 wrote:
Thanks for this write-up. Breaking out myth for the first time in a year tomorrow. Can't wait to see how they work.

One thing about the swashbuckler - does the weird syntax regarding the dual wield weapon - "it activates immediately" - occur anywhere else in Myth? There's no rule for item activation anywhere in the 2.0 rules, and attacks come from the attack card, not the weapon.

Another head-scratchingly bizarre step back from coherence.


We never thought about it that way. "it" wasn't the weapon, but the attack that is associated with the duel-wield weapon. (*shrug*)
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Steven Babel
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Deadwolf wrote:


Early in my 2nd module (Rise of the Revenant), I pulled the wand item and gave it to my Acolyte. This allowed me to use Smite and the adv card Dirge of Twilight much more frequently and drastically changed my play style. It was quite fun. You were able to do this before the Journeyman expansions but it was new to me . The extra d10 of the Necromancer will also go a long way in making up for the single d10 on the wand item.



I was under the impression you had to use weapons with matching key words, ie Smite has key word Melee and thus can only be preformed with a weapon with Melee keyword. Though I never though about giving other people the Wand before. I can imagine a Archer Dual wielding a gun/crossbow and wand to be quite strong since you could use a lot of counter attacks and attacks, while still saving ammo for a massive Orion's.
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Jeremy Steward
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swgbabel wrote:
Deadwolf wrote:


Early in my 2nd module (Rise of the Revenant), I pulled the wand item and gave it to my Acolyte. This allowed me to use Smite and the adv card Dirge of Twilight much more frequently and drastically changed my play style. It was quite fun. You were able to do this before the Journeyman expansions but it was new to me . The extra d10 of the Necromancer will also go a long way in making up for the single d10 on the wand item.



I was under the impression you had to use weapons with matching key words, ie Smite has key word Melee and thus can only be preformed with a weapon with Melee keyword. Though I never though about giving other people the Wand before. I can imagine a Archer Dual wielding a gun/crossbow and wand to be quite strong since you could use a lot of counter attacks and attacks, while still saving ammo for a massive Orion's.


I will have to look into it further this evening but you may be right and this being a case of me playing as I did in 1.0 (where main hands were generally not restricted except for the bows). Right or wrong, I still am going to play this way lol.

To dual wield, the item need the offhand symbol and Dual wield keyword so it wouldnt work for the archer. But I know back in the day, people had issues with the Soldier "Devastating" from 5 spaces away.
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David Jackson
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swgbabel wrote:
Deadwolf wrote:


Early in my 2nd module (Rise of the Revenant), I pulled the wand item and gave it to my Acolyte. This allowed me to use Smite and the adv card Dirge of Twilight much more frequently and drastically changed my play style. It was quite fun. You were able to do this before the Journeyman expansions but it was new to me . The extra d10 of the Necromancer will also go a long way in making up for the single d10 on the wand item.



I was under the impression you had to use weapons with matching key words, ie Smite has key word Melee and thus can only be preformed with a weapon with Melee keyword. Though I never though about giving other people the Wand before. I can imagine a Archer Dual wielding a gun/crossbow and wand to be quite strong since you could use a lot of counter attacks and attacks, while still saving ammo for a massive Orion's.


Yeah, Wand is "Weapon,Magic" I think. Smite and Dirge require "Melee".

Don't recall any attack cards that specifically call out "Magic", but there are some generic Attack cards (Brigand and Acolyte?) that say "Weapon" and not "Melee", so you could use the wand there.

Why there is even a "Magic" keyword is another mystery.


A lot of the cards in this game could have been really streamlined and made more clear with use of icons instead of all of the text and keyword nonsense.
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CarelessOpossum wrote:
Why there is even a "Magic" keyword is another mystery.


I know the messaging from these guys is all over the place as one guy overrules something the other has already stated, but didn't they say this was for future use at one point?


CarelessOpossum wrote:
A lot of the cards in this game could have been really streamlined and made more clear with use of icons instead of all of the text and keyword nonsense.


Amen Brother, preach on!
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Jeremy Steward
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I dont quite understand the magic keyword either. My thoughts are that they had intended to use it as a keyword like melee but then scrapped it but forgot to remove it from the card. The fact that an item like Lunaian Spellbook doesnt have it seems to support the theory.

Anyway, I am houseruling the the melee keyword off of the Acolyte cards. I get that the Soldier, Brigand, or Swashbuckler shouldnt be using a wand. But An Acolyte should be able to use magic items. The Acolyte doesnt really need a buff but allowing the use of the wand/Lunaian Spellbook is far from the most broken thing in this game (And the latter item allowing the storage of an ongoing is very good for the Necromancer).
 
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Judy Krauss
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CarelessOpossum wrote:


Yeah, Wand is "Weapon,Magic" I think. Smite and Dirge require "Melee".

Don't recall any attack cards that specifically call out "Magic", but there are some generic Attack cards (Brigand and Acolyte?) that say "Weapon" and not "Melee", so you could use the wand there.

Why there is even a "Magic" keyword is another mystery.


A lot of the cards in this game could have been really streamlined and made more clear with use of icons instead of all of the text and keyword nonsense.


The Wand is rather confusing to me, too.

I believe that the "Magic" keyword may have something to do with future monster immunities and weaknesses, but it would have been nice if all the keywords were defined in the 2.0 rulebook.

I disagree about using icons rather than keywords. I've always had trouble remembering which icons mean what (for example, I can't play Race for the Galaxy without constantly referring to the icons chart, and even the icons on the Myth tiles took me a long time to memorize). Keywords are great because the word(s) remind me what they do (but, as I mentioned before, they all really need to be defined in the rulebook). And I find the text and images useful to help explain how a cards works. Once a player becomes very familiar with each hero's card deck, a glance at the keywords should be enough, but the rest of the text is helpful, IMHO.
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Boots
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Saw the swashbuckler in action last Wednesday, and really liked his damage output. One thing worth pointing out - he might be a great minion clearer, but as you have to do 3 damage with one action, he often doesn't get treasure to pop even if he kills four or five minions in a turn.

The exception is his Dash attack, which is OBSCENE. But watch out for his massive threat gains!
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Jeremy Steward
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Boots01 wrote:
Saw the swashbuckler in action last Wednesday, and really liked his damage output. One thing worth pointing out - he might be a great minion clearer, but as you have to do 3 damage with one action, he often doesn't get treasure to pop even if he kills four or five minions in a turn.

The exception is his Dash attack, which is OBSCENE. But watch out for his massive threat gains!


You are right, but 2 aoe skills is normal among heroes (only Apprentice and Soldier have more)and Walk Among Thorns can easily drop 2 treasures!

I played my last module with A Walk Among Thorns only giving 1 dash for each interrupt. It felt a lot more balanced, considering the quality of his deck overall and made the comparison to the Tactician a lot more palatable.
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