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Champions of Midgard» Forums » General

Subject: Shame tokens impact rss

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Ben McInroy
Canada
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After playing numerous games I have yet to see a game where the shame tokens have had a large impact. Perhaps my gaming groups are just very conscious of it and it averages out across all of us. Most we've seen is when a player is going for most slayed trolls (destiny card). Still little impact though.

Curious if anyone else has had a different experience?

I suppose if there was a runaway leader people would start trying to shame them repeatedly, forcing them to focus on the troll instead of monsters. Just haven't experienced it yet.
 
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Evan
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Longwood
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My experience hasn't matched yours, but admittedly I've only played the game twice.

What I have found is that invariably, someone in a four player game starts falling behind, which means they have to avoid the troll altogether. That leaves just three people fighting for that spot. Usually, one of those three players falls in love with the big victory point monsters at the bottom of the board, which leaves two players who are truly conscious of the Troll.

Now, if you have four experienced CoM players, this may even out a bit. But if you watch the TableTop episode that features this game, Chris Kluwe basically wins the game by being the one who visits the Troll over and over and passes out the blame to the one opponent who is his main threat. In the end, the difference in blame is what won him the game and in the two games I have played so far, the person with the most blame would have won the game if not for having -15 or more points in blame tokens.
 
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Brandon Wïse

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Rarely. I have found that as people in my group get more familiar with the game the troll dies all eight rounds. I remember one recent game when we missed one troll and sent three of the blame tokens to the same player, but it was not enough to make a difference in the standings.
 
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Jason Brown
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FCBM wrote:
Rarely. I have found that as people in my group get more familiar with the game the troll dies all eight rounds. I remember one recent game when we missed one troll and sent three of the blame tokens to the same player, but it was not enough to make a difference in the standings.

Why did one person get three blame tokens? Everyone gets,one when you don't kill the troll.

When I take first player, I take the troll a majority of the time. I've seen it swing games when one person goes at it and I've seen it have a negligible impact when everyone attacks it. The Chris Kluwe Tabletop episode was a great of winning by going small. I don't think he went on any voyages, he focused on the troll and draughers and it won him the game.
 
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Brandon Wïse

Connecticut
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I hope I'm not going crazy. But I seem to remember that whoever kills the troll is allowed to send a blame token to another player. Maybe I'm thinking of a different game.
 
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Evan
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FCBM wrote:
I hope I'm not going crazy. But I seem to remember that whoever kills the troll is allowed to send a blame token to another player. Maybe I'm thinking of a different game.


That is correct. But that isn't what you said. You said that nobody attacked the troll, so you gave three tokens to one person. When nobody defeats the troll, ALL players each get one token that round. Only when someone defeats the troll can ONE blame token be assigned.
 
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Brandon Wïse

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GoingTopShelf wrote:

That is correct. But that isn't what you said. You said that nobody attacked the troll, so you gave three tokens to one person.


No I didn't say that. The word "round" never even appeared in my sentence.
 
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Yosef Bender

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so far in games I played it had a small impact but in two games the subtraction of the leader was enough to change who won the game as every player was close to each other in vp
 
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jooice ZP
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Blame is super important to avoid.

All the games I have lost have been because of too much blame.

I have found that 3 blame is manageable, and try to stay around that, but since players gang up on the leader and since it is my game, a lack of leader means me, I have to consciously make sure I fight the troll at least 3 times in the game and often that isn't enough.

The blame is a catchup mechanism, and it works well at punishing the leader.

The only problem i have with it is in the last round when players often "king make" accidentally. A possible fix to that is house-ruling that on the last round only, each of the non-troll defeaters gets one blame from the bank. (need to remember to play with that)
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Evan
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FCBM wrote:
GoingTopShelf wrote:

That is correct. But that isn't what you said. You said that nobody attacked the troll, so you gave three tokens to one person.


No I didn't say that. The word "round" never even appeared in my sentence.


There are eight rounds in the game. If you only missed attacking the troll once, that means that 10 blame tokens were distributed. One per round plus three the round you missed. You said that three were given to one player. If not in the same round, why would that fact be notable? That's only 5% more than if the tokens were distributed randomly, which is impossible because you can't give someone 2.5 tokens. Of course they would have little impact if that was the case, which is why I assumed you meant they were distributed in one round (and another commenter in the thread assumed the same thing). Under your scenario, the tokens had to be allocated something like 3-2-2-2 or 3-3-3-1, so naturally they would have had little impact. The only way they can affect the game is if someone has 5 or 6 while the rest of the group has no more than 2-3.
 
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Brandon Wïse

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GoingTopShelf wrote:

There are eight rounds in the game. If you only missed attacking the troll once, that means that 10 blame tokens were distributed. One per round plus three the round you missed. You said that three were given to one player. If not in the same round, why would that fact be notable? That's only 5% more than if the tokens were distributed randomly, which is impossible because you can't give someone 2.5 tokens. Of course they would have little impact if that was the case, which is why I assumed you meant they were distributed in one round (and another commenter in the thread assumed the same thing). Under your scenario, the tokens had to be allocated something like 3-2-2-2 or 3-3-3-1, so naturally they would have had little impact. The only way they can affect the game is if someone has 5 or 6 while the rest of the group has no more than 2-3.


Ok I understand now. I meant net three, so in a four player game there should be 11 tokens out, right? And 10 tokens for a three player game? The distribution was 5-2-2-2. The player with 5 tokens turned out to not be very good, and would have lost the game anyway, so my overall point was that in a game of four good players I haven't encountered a game where they blame disparity was significant.
 
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Evan
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FCBM wrote:
GoingTopShelf wrote:

There are eight rounds in the game. If you only missed attacking the troll once, that means that 10 blame tokens were distributed. One per round plus three the round you missed. You said that three were given to one player. If not in the same round, why would that fact be notable? That's only 5% more than if the tokens were distributed randomly, which is impossible because you can't give someone 2.5 tokens. Of course they would have little impact if that was the case, which is why I assumed you meant they were distributed in one round (and another commenter in the thread assumed the same thing). Under your scenario, the tokens had to be allocated something like 3-2-2-2 or 3-3-3-1, so naturally they would have had little impact. The only way they can affect the game is if someone has 5 or 6 while the rest of the group has no more than 2-3.


Ok I understand now. I meant net three, so in a four player game there should be 11 tokens out, right? And 10 tokens for a three player game? The distribution was 5-2-2-2. The player with 5 tokens turned out to not be very good, and would have lost the game anyway, so my overall point was that in a game of four good players I haven't encountered a game where they blame disparity was significant.


In a four player game with 8 rounds, the number of blame tokens that get distributed depend on how often the group fights the Troll, and the success when fighting the troll. Remember, when the person who chooses to fight the troll is successful in doing so, he gets to remove a blame token from his own character, so that round, the effect could be net zero, or +1 if the player who attacked the troll didn't have a blame token to remove. Therefore, there is no way to determine how many blame tokens will be out at the end of the game no matter what the player count is.

I've seen games where in five or more rounds, nobody fights the troll, therefore everyone has 3-5 blame tokens at one time. I've seen games where one person exclusively fights the troll, ends up with no blame and distributes 4 to two different people. Depending on how things play out, blame tokens can be the difference in the game, but typically, maybe 70% of the time, I imagine things even out. But it is a path to victory if you choose to take it.
 
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jooice ZP
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GoingTopShelf wrote:
[q="FCBM"][q="GoingTopShelf"]

In a four player game with 8 rounds, the number of blame tokens that get distributed depend on how often the group fights the Troll, and the success when fighting the troll. Remember, when the person who chooses to fight the troll is successful in doing so, he gets to remove a blame token from his own character, so that round, the effect could be net zero, or +1 if the player who attacked the troll didn't have a blame token to remove. Therefore, there is no way to determine how many blame tokens will be out at the end of the game no matter what the player count is.



There is an official variant that starts everyone with one blame.

I like it, it helps preventing a troll attackoing on round 1
 
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Mikolaj Witkowski
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jooice wrote:
GoingTopShelf wrote:
[q="FCBM"][q="GoingTopShelf"]

In a four player game with 8 rounds, the number of blame tokens that get distributed depend on how often the group fights the Troll, and the success when fighting the troll. Remember, when the person who chooses to fight the troll is successful in doing so, he gets to remove a blame token from his own character, so that round, the effect could be net zero, or +1 if the player who attacked the troll didn't have a blame token to remove. Therefore, there is no way to determine how many blame tokens will be out at the end of the game no matter what the player count is.



There is an official variant that starts everyone with one blame.

I like it, it helps preventing a troll attackoing on round 1

I played my first game without this variant and will not come back, the blame token at the start means they start to pile up nicely and become more important quickly. Also - blame tokens can be a great way to fight a run-away leader, if you concentrate on one person (or just play 2 players) getting someone 4-5 tokes is doable and it does matter a lot.
 
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jooice ZP
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borsook wrote:

I played my first game without this variant and will not come back, the blame token at the start means they start to pile up nicely and become more important quickly. Also - blame tokens can be a great way to fight a run-away leader, if you concentrate on one person (or just play 2 players) getting someone 4-5 tokes is doable and it does matter a lot.


So you are saying you start the game with 1 token and plan t keep playing as such?
if so i agree that it is a good one
 
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Mitch Lavender
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Fort Worth
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I suppose if no one ever fights the troll, all the players get the same number of blame tokens and therefore take the same loss in final scoring, the troll (and blame) would not matter. I've never played in a game where the players played that way but it could happen.

I do agree that having one or two blame tokens is not that big a hit in final scoring (-1 and -3, respectively), but after that it does start to hurt your final score and can make a difference.
 
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