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Evolution: Climate» Forums » Rules

Subject: Is using the Plant Micro-Expansion supposed to feel like gardening? rss

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Brandon Jacobson
United States
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I trust that North Star Games put in their share of balancing and playtesting for the Plant Micro-Expansion. I do.

However, each time I’ve played with Plant Species, players have absolutely no desire to create a Cold Climate.

Why would they?

The more Plant Food they can produce, the more likely they are to have leftover Food for scoring.

The entire focus of the game has become “Who can produce and protect the most Plant Food”. Because why not, when you have an unkillable species that can produce 9 points a round for you? You don't even need to be able to eat it -- Carnivores win games because they are uncharitable gardeners.

If anyone else’s experience and perspective is different, please enlighten me.

Otherwise, I’ve devised some revisions to the rules which I believe would help to remedy this shift of priorities, and will move this post to the Variants Forum for feedback on such.

 
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Simona Dostalova
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It depends on the game. I, for one, prefer to have self-feeding species (long necks, foraging, migratory, cooperations...) and am thus lowering the climate so other people can't feed...
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Morten K
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esed wrote:
It depends on the game. I, for one, prefer to have self-feeding species (long necks, foraging, migratory, cooperations...) and am thus lowering the climate so other people can't feed...


Yup I was about to post the same thing. It doesn't matter if all of your animals are fed if the opponents feed more.
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Tomer Mlynarsky
Israel
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Here's the problem with the logic in the op:


If everyone are looking to get more food, then everyone are likely to have food then everyone score - and get the same score!

If nobody is looking to get more food, then everyone are likely to be fine without food then nobody scores - equally.



It doesn't matter if you get 5 points and the opponent gets 5 points
Or if neither of you get 5 points. The difference remains the same.




So why would anyone go for cold weather?
Because they are protected from it, making other specifies die faster?
To get people to waste cards to raise body size instead of adding to population or getting traits?
Cause they have traits that let them easily survive with low food amounts - like Long Neck, Coperation, Scavanger, Fat Tissue etc?




Basically, it's like asking if you play the regular game (no plants), why would anyone play cards with low food values on them.


Because they can survive and want everyone else to starve.
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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I have found that Carnivores do not protect your plants as much as you expect. Your Carnivore is going to eat before the round is over. Once it's full, it does not provide any protection to your plants.
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Simona Dostalova
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domcrap wrote:
I have found that Carnivores do not protect your plants as much as you expect. Your Carnivore is going to eat before the round is over. Once it's full, it does not provide any protection to your plants.


This reminds me - can your carnivore decide not to attack animal that's trying to eat your plants or do you HAVE to eat it if his defenses are low?
 
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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The attack is optional.
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PersistentVariant wrote:
I trust that North Star Games put in their share of balancing and playtesting for the Plant Micro-Expansion. I do.

I thought that the Plant Micro-Expansion was in the same category as the Promo cards, just a little novelty they've thrown in, not really part of the game but a neat idea they're still working on?
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Brandon Jacobson
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This feedback was awesome, thank you.

I agree that motivations to go Cold include:
•Killing off others' unprotected species with the Cold.
•Forcing others to spend cards on Cold survival traits/Body Size.
•Starving others.

As well, Dom, thanks for pointing out that everyone's Plant Food isn't as protected as we'd think. That keeps anyone from pulling too far ahead due to simply growing and protecting their Plant. Everyone would get about the same points from their Plants, or if anything, the leader would get less than others. Touché.

As I've played with these perspectives in mind, I've been very happy to see that Cold Climates are still viable and preferable in many cases.

That being said, I have a comment and a question:

Rainbow Snake wrote:

I thought that the Plant Micro-Expansion was in the same category as the Promo cards, just a little novelty they've thrown in, not really part of the game but a neat idea they're still working on?


blushYes, but I prefer the game with the Plant Micro-Expansion and so am banking on what testing NSG did do for it/what adjustments we work out here...

One other thing I've run into and am somewhat conflicted on is that the Plant Micro-Expansion seems to weaken Foraging and Cooperation (and rightly so, debatably).
Because Foraging and Cooperation both take additional Food "from the same source", if the Plant Species you are feeding from runs out of Food, you miss out! Even if there's still Food on the "Watering Hole" (other Plant Species)!
Is this a correct interpretation?
Should I be able to take Food from another Plant Species since they are part of the collective "Watering Hole"?
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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PersistentVariant wrote:
Rainbow Snake wrote:

I thought that the Plant Micro-Expansion was in the same category as the Promo cards, just a little novelty they've thrown in, not really part of the game but a neat idea they're still working on?


blushYes, but I prefer the game with the Plant Micro-Expansion and so am banking on what testing NSG did do for it/what adjustments we work out here...

Some of the promo cards have received considerable testing (almost making it into one of the boxed games) and others have never been tested (but have received tremendous debate by the development team - often for 10+ man hours). The Plant Expansion was somewhere in the middle of these two extremes - we have about 20 unique game experiences on the matter.

PersistentVariant wrote:
One other thing I've run into and am somewhat conflicted on is that the Plant Micro-Expansion seems to weaken Foraging and Cooperation (and rightly so, debatably). Because Foraging and Cooperation both take additional Food "from the same source", if the Plant Species you are feeding from runs out of Food, you miss out! Even if there's still Food on the "Watering Hole" (other Plant Species)!
Is this a correct interpretation?

Yes, that interpretation is correct. Perhaps they are a little less powerful in that regard, though they certainly feel more powerful when they are used against you!

laugh
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