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Star Wars: Imperial Assault» Forums » Rules

Subject: How to play Focus when there aren't enough green dice rss

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andy phillippe
United Kingdom
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Hi All,

We played a mission last night with me as the Imperial. One of the rebels (playing as Diala) had Focus and declared and attack. Diala's basic weapon has 2x green dice in its attack pool. So following the instructions on the Focus card, we should add a green dice to the attack pool. However the core box only comes with 2x green dice.

I argued that, since rules and instructions should be read literally, and without assumption, we should try to add an additional green die to the attack pool, i.e. not one of the green dice already in the attack pool. But since there is no green die outside of the attack pool to add to it, this could not be done. Therefore the attack should proceed with two green dice.

The rebel players argued that dice rolls are fungible, that there is no difference between rolling three green dice and rolling two green dice then rerolling one green dice.

I believe that this argument takes a level of assumption or interpretation, so the former argument is correct. However I know this is a fairly pedantic argument so in the interest of keeping the peace I conceded and me moved forward rerolling one of the green dice.

I have a post waiting to be approved on the official forum but just thought I would post here for peoples opinions on how much of a tool I'm being!

Cheers.
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Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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There is no component limitation in the dice. It is not a matter of opinion.

As far as I remember, the instruction is somewhere in the Learn to Play or Rules Reference:

If you need to roll more dice than you physically have, you roll one, note down the result, and use the same physical die again.
RRG, Component Limitations wrote:
If players are required to use more components than found in the game, follow these rules:
* If players are required to roll more dice than those included in the game, they should record the current result, reroll the needed dice, and combine the results. This does not count as a reroll.

(only quoted the applicable portion)

Aphillippe wrote:
I have a post waiting to be approved on the official forum

Which official forum? I didn't know the FFG forums require moderation. (Can unregistered users post?) https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/forum/403-star-wars...

(Edit: Diala's starting Plasteel Staff is Green+Yellow, Jyn's Vintage Blaster is 2x Green. There are a couple Weapon items that have 2x Green as well.)
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Gary McCloskey
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Just record the result of the die that will be rerolled. Then roll that die and total the results. I can't remember in which one of the guides it says that. That is what I would do.
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Gustav W
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Aphillippe wrote:

I have a post waiting to be approved on the official forum but just thought I would post here for peoples opinions on how much of a tool I'm being!

Cheers.

Hi, since you asked...
Trying to enforce a rule without actually reading the rules.

So for your last question, I think you've guessed it.

Edit: Someone got upset, changed to less upsetting words.
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Tomer Mlynarsky
Israel
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Leaving aside the issue of the ruling already posted above, you know that they sell extra dice of this game, right?

So that suddenly means you can add another one if you buy an "expansion"?
Would seem seriously clunky to me.
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andy phillippe
United Kingdom
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a1bert wrote:
There is no component limitation in the dice. It is not a matter of opinion.

As far as I remember, the instruction is somewhere in the Learn to Play or Rules Reference:

If you need to roll more dice than you physically have, you roll one, note down the result, and use the same physical die again.
RRG, Component Limitations wrote:
If players are required to use more components than found in the game, follow these rules:
* If players are required to roll more dice than those included in the game, they should record the current result, reroll the needed dice, and combine the results. This does not count as a reroll.

(only quoted the applicable portion)

Aphillippe wrote:
I have a post waiting to be approved on the official forum

Which official forum? I didn't know the FFG forums require moderation. (Can unregistered users post?) https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/forum/403-star-wars...

(Edit: Diala's starting Plasteel Staff is Green+Yellow, Jyn's Vintage Blaster is 2x Green. There are a couple Weapon items that have 2x Green as well.)


Thanks for the helpful pointer to the relevant rule. I was searching through and didn't find that one. Obviously clears it up nicely.

Re your edit: The lighting in the room wasn't great, we thought it was 2x green on the plasteel staff. So we were arguing about nothing anyway.

I do find it difficult to gauge how pedantic to be (ignoring the fact that I was flat out wrong). It's a fine line balancing sticking to the rules vs annoying people.

Thanks for your help anyway.
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Gustav W
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Aphillippe wrote:
I do find it difficult to gauge how pedantic to be (ignoring the fact that I was flat out wrong). It's a fine line balancing sticking to the rules vs annoying people.

Thanks for your help anyway.

Regarding component limitations in games in general.
By default, I think of every game component as unlimited in every game, unless the rules tells you they are limited.

I prefer if the rulebook have a "component limitation"-section like IA though.
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Chris K.
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Aphillippe wrote:
a1bert wrote:
There is no component limitation in the dice. It is not a matter of opinion.

As far as I remember, the instruction is somewhere in the Learn to Play or Rules Reference:

If you need to roll more dice than you physically have, you roll one, note down the result, and use the same physical die again.
RRG, Component Limitations wrote:
If players are required to use more components than found in the game, follow these rules:
* If players are required to roll more dice than those included in the game, they should record the current result, reroll the needed dice, and combine the results. This does not count as a reroll.

(only quoted the applicable portion)

Aphillippe wrote:
I have a post waiting to be approved on the official forum

Which official forum? I didn't know the FFG forums require moderation. (Can unregistered users post?) https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/forum/403-star-wars...

(Edit: Diala's starting Plasteel Staff is Green+Yellow, Jyn's Vintage Blaster is 2x Green. There are a couple Weapon items that have 2x Green as well.)


Thanks for the helpful pointer to the relevant rule. I was searching through and didn't find that one. Obviously clears it up nicely.

Re your edit: The lighting in the room wasn't great, we thought it was 2x green on the plasteel staff. So we were arguing about nothing anyway.

I do find it difficult to gauge how pedantic to be (ignoring the fact that I was flat out wrong). It's a fine line balancing sticking to the rules vs annoying people.

Thanks for your help anyway.


Regarding pedantry:

In nearly all situations "Imperial Assault" is a rule set where it pays to be pedantic, since often problems arise from not being specific about reading the wording and keywords as they are presented in the rules.

However, that said: You only get to be pedantic once you are very familiar with the rules and if you haven't found the rule addressing your question directly, you very likely just missed it so far. It is extremely helpfull to use the PDF Version of the reference rules available on the FFG page for this, as the search function in the PDF is supremely helpful in finding any reference to a relevant word quickly even if it is hidden in some other part of the rules.
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Jeff Hickey
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Rossville
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There's also a dice app for all the Fantasy Flight games. Although I have an extra set of dice, one of my players uses the app for dice rolls... except for the white die. She seems to have better luck rolling an actual die. I PREFER actual dice to the app, but in a pinch, the app is pretty cheap and works for multiple games.

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Thomas with Subtrendy
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Webbe wrote:

By default, I think of every game component as unlimited in every game, unless the rules tells you they are limited.

I prefer if the rulebook have a "component limitation"-section like IA though.

That's not a bad idea, but to be fair, one of FFG's other big Star Wars games from this year (Rebellion) does have some stricter component restrictions. Perhaps this is why the assumption was made?
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Reserved 89
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I think logic also helps in deciding which answer is more likely, if you haven't (yet) found the rule that covers the situation.

Does it make sense that Diala would effectively lose her focus if using a green-green weapon but gets her focus if using any other kind of 2-dice weapon?

I'd say no, so even in the absence of the rule A1bert quoted I'd say one answer was much more likely than the other.
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Christian Gienger
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reserved89 wrote:
I think logic also helps in deciding which answer is more likely, if you haven't (yet) found the rule that covers the situation.

Does it make sense that Diala would effectively lose her focus if using a green-green weapon but gets her focus if using any other kind of 2-dice weapon?

I'd say no, so even in the absence of the rule A1bert quoted I'd say one answer was much more likely than the other.


In Descent the dice were limited to what's in the box and Weiss also can't use more than 2 of the same colour, so I was thinking the same at first and thought that this was an intended weakness of green green weapons.
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