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Subject: Some random questions rss

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Evolvent
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Hello everybody,

while playing the RtL campaign, a couple of questions have piled up.

Outdoor Encounters
1) Do the arrows on the map thumbnail on the battlefield card mean the possible places to flee from? (I presume yes, but I couldn't find anything about that in the rules and it seems a little weird that the heroes can run away only after battling through the enemy lines.)
2) Has anybody else had difficulties with the Shadowcloak ability of trees? In our group, we decided to ignore it since it made outdoor encounters long and boring (everyone moves into the tree in the first round ... and then, everybody waits for the other side to go out and get themselves shot to pieces).
3) How can the heroes actually kill a lieutenant? It seems to me that they can comfortably let their minions to do battle with the party, running away whenever they feel like losing, and heroes are absolutely powerless against this. (I see that some Webs / Grapples / Telekinesis could help, but if the OL sees that the heroes can do those things, he will be compelled to run straightaway.)
4) Only a cosmetic thing: How should be the LT represented on the board? Are we supposed to use the circular token which is moved around on the World Map? (Currently we use some unused hero figures, like a powerfully-looking man with a big sword for Alric and so on.)

Large Monsters
1) Are the zig-zag movement and the diagonal sidestep the only maneuvers a non-square large monster can do? (I fear I may have played it wrong, thinking that they could move orthogonally as a whole as well.) (Maybe this is why the dragons have so big wings? )
2) Can the large monsters partially enter an impassable terrain like rubble or water? (Expecting a "no" here, but asking anyway since the whole matter with large monsters and terrain starts to be pretty confusing for me.)

Tiny Monsters
1) Kobolds — is there any way to make use of them? I tried them just for the heck of it and I was seriously disappointed (they are so slow and weak that it doesn't really matter how many of them there are). Heroes just blasted and breathed for one turn and farewell, kobolds. I can somehow imagine that you can use them as a meatshield until the heroes get AoE attacks (but that usually happens in early Copper).

Misc
1) In the Valley of Souls, the heroes can get the "Crown of the Elder Kings" (so says the rulebook on every ocassion), but the card is nowhere to be found. What I find instead is the "Armor of Elder Kings" with exactly the same image. Are they one and the same thing?
2) When the heroes open a sarcophagus, the OL may play a trap as if they opened a chest. Does that mean that a sarcophagus can go mimic? (By "going mimic" I mean "cards Mimic or Killer Chest being used on them".) If the heroes open the sarcophagus, it goes mimic and a master sorcerer emerges, what happens first: master sorcerer crawling out, or a mimic activating? Or will the roll for the sarcophagus content be postponed until it is killed?
3) If a chest goes mimic, is there an opportunity to play another trap the moment they kill it? (My guess would be "no" since "the contents are immediately distributed" once the chest is killed, IIRC.)
4) Does the Titan's card "Greater Ogres" add 5 wounds and Reach to Killer Chests as well?
5) In PbF games, I ocassionally see a hero doing something along the lines of "Guard. Just before the first monster moves, use the guard for some attack." What's the point of that?

Many of those last questions are just something that seems to be okay from the rules point of view but against the common sense. (And some of them aren't anything we would really encounter, rather just some extensions in the "what-if" style.)

Thank you for any answers.
 
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Jan Tuijp
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Outdoor Encounters
1) Yes.
2) Hiding in the trees for too long will cost you, since time is in the Lt's favor.
3) Most encounters end with thoroughly defeated heroes or a Lt giving them the slip. That's how encounters work.
4) Yep, by the circular token. And it's not cosmetic. Some tokens are larger than others, representing larger beings.

Large Monsters
1) Not sure what you mean. What else do you want them to do?
2) No.

Tiny Monsters
In RtL, Kobolds are freaking awesome, given the right circumstances. If you can spawn them close enough to a hero, their swarm ability really hurts. Trickster for the red ones can be very nice also in the right dungeon.

Misc
1) Don't know. Maybe somebody else knows.
2) Don't have the text of the cards here, but if I understand you correctly, the roll will be postponed until the monster dies.
3) No. It's not a chest anymore.
4) That card works on all ogres, where ever they come from.
5) The "Guard" order enables the hero to interrupt the OL's turn. Which can be very useful at times. It's also useful for melee heroes that can't reach a monster to attack. With a guard order they can attack it anyway if the monster gets near them.

 
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Evolvent
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First of all, thank you for the answers.

Outdoor Encounters
2) Is it? The Lt surely can collect more threat, but anyway, he can spend it only on a limited amount of cards? Once he has used them up, the threat is of no use to him. Or is it?
3) Okay, I'm perfectly content with that (as the OL)
4) Aaah, now I remember we had some of these (and we put it into the big bag for "unidentified tokens"). But since I play the Sorcerer King in the campaign, all my Lt's have a 1×1 token.

Large Monsters
1) Let's say that a hell hound is on B2-B3 (coords as in chess or a PbF). I wanted to be able to do movements that change only the row or column, i. e. to A2-A3, C2-C3, B1-B2 and B3-B4. Rules seem to permit only a movement to B3-C3 (and so on — the "zig-zag" movement) and C3-C4 (and so on — the diagonal movement).

Put even another way: I'd like a dragon to be able to walk through a corridor 2 squares wide.

Tiny Monsters
Could you perhaps give a specific example? I just don't see it. When attacking with them, it was hard for me to make use of the swarm ability (since they have only 3 speed and they cannot interrupt each other's turns). And even if I managed to do that, it added, say, 2 to 3 black dice, which is +1-2 damage (hm ... nice per se, but their basic attack is pathetic and this won't help really much).

As for spawning them near a hero: since they have a movement score of 3, I'd need to spawn them 2-3 squares from a hero, and most often, they have LoS there. And if not, most often it's possible to spawn only a single figure like this.

Maybe I should mention that we're in late Silver and the heroes have pretty high AC. Most of the kobold's attacks didn't even go through.

But Trickster sure is nice, yeah.

Misc
5) The guard order is great (at least for the heroes, that is — sadly they've already learned how to use it), but I tried to make a different point. I've seen a few times that a player announced guard and triggered it at the start of the OL's turn, before the OL could do anything. That was something I didn't understand.
 
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Evolvent
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Yeah, he sorted most of them out.

Maybe I will have to take the 5) (about guard orders fired at the very start of OL's turn) back since there are occassions when it makes sense (these two are coming to my mind: 1) Tahlia wanting the extra movement. 2) Leadership that makes it an attack for free — it's like an extension of your turn) and I can't recall if that was the case when I saw this kind of maneuver in PbF.
 
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duhtch
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Quote:
Outdoor Encounters
2) Is it? The Lt surely can collect more threat, but anyway, he can spend it only on a limited amount of cards? Once he has used them up, the threat is of no use to him. Or is it?


The OL may spent 2t (threat) to add or upgrade a dice for any monster. For instance after a Skeleton attacks, you can roll additional dice (12t for a gold, silver, and black dice). You can also spend 2t for 1mp (movement point).


Quote:
Large Monsters
1) Let's say that a hell hound is on B2-B3 (coords as in chess or a PbF). I wanted to be able to do movements that change only the row or column, i. e. to A2-A3, C2-C3, B1-B2 and B3-B4. Rules seem to permit only a movement to B3-C3 (and so on — the "zig-zag" movement) and C3-C4 (and so on — the diagonal movement).

Put even another way: I'd like a dragon to be able to walk through a corridor 2 squares wide.


Lets draw up some examples


Here you have a Hell Hound (HH) @B4/5, BC9, F11/12; Dragon @JK10/11/12.

HH @BC9, can not move east and west when it is vertical. For Example, it cannot move to BC8. What it can do is rotate it's north or south base, in this case, we will rotate from B9, to end at B8/9 (1mp), then rotate from B8 to BC8. This will cost 2mp in total.

HH @F11/12 moves to E12/13 (it cannot move from E12/13 to D12/13) so it has to rotate to DE13, then to CD13, and finish @ BC14.

So yes, with a dragon, you can go down a 2 space corridor.

Dragon @JK10/11/12 can move west 4 spaces to JK6/7/8, then spend 2t (threat) for an additional mp to move northwest to IJ5/6/7. You cannot move north from that spot from IJ5/6/7 to HI5/6/7. You can only move along the lengthwise portion. Going back to JK10/11/12, move east to JK11/12/13, then rotate north to IJK12/13 for a total of 2mp. Make Sense?

Quote:
Tiny Monsters
Could you perhaps give a specific example? I just don't see it. When attacking with them, it was hard for me to make use of the swarm ability (since they have only 3 speed and they cannot interrupt each other's turns). And even if I managed to do that, it added, say, 2 to 3 black dice, which is +1-2 damage (hm ... nice per se, but their basic attack is pathetic and this won't help really much).

As for spawning them near a hero: since they have a movement score of 3, I'd need to spawn them 2-3 squares from a hero, and most often, they have LoS there. And if not, most often it's possible to spawn only a single figure like this.

Maybe I should mention that we're in late Silver and the heroes have pretty high AC. Most of the kobold's attacks didn't even go through.

But Trickster sure is nice, yeah.


You are right, Kobolds suck, but there is a situation for everything in Descent imo. When you are in late Silver, everything dies in 1-2 hits (especially copper monsters).

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/23954883#23954883

Check this out. Every once in awhile you can have LoS work out for you.

Quote:
Misc
5) The guard order is great (at least for the heroes, that is — sadly they've already learned how to use it), but I tried to make a different point. I've seen a few times that a player announced guard and triggered it at the start of the OL's turn, before the OL could do anything. That was something I didn't understand.


What I usually do is trigger my guard before the OL gains threat and cards (when in a dungeon) so that they don't draw a Dodge card to change result. In a PBF, when you are dealing with playing with multiple players in multiple timezones, for simplicity sake, it is easier to use the guard before the OL takes his turn. There is a current PBF going on right now where the heroes are always using their guard at the beginning, which is the worst choice, but they are beginners and learning the game.

Quote:
2) Has anybody else had difficulties with the Shadowcloak ability of trees? In our group, we decided to ignore it since it made outdoor encounters long and boring (everyone moves into the tree in the first round ... and then, everybody waits for the other side to go out and get themselves shot to pieces).


This game isn't meant to be easy. You are severely hurting yourself and your group to ignore a very important game mechanic. See the top where the OL can still make use of his threat.


Quote:
3) How can the heroes actually kill a lieutenant? It seems to me that they can comfortably let their minions to do battle with the party, running away whenever they feel like losing, and heroes are absolutely powerless against this. (I see that some Webs / Grapples / Telekinesis could help, but if the OL sees that the heroes can do those things, he will be compelled to run straightaway.)


This is the advanced campaign. In a world where we want instant gratification, this game is long and can be 60+ hours. Fleeing is a VERY important part of the game and in my opinion, the overland board is more important than the dungeons. Read some of the PBF campaigns and you can see some really good strategy. Corbon, Immortal, Kartigan, and Davide have been some of my favorite opponents.

BTW, Telekinesis is NOT allowed in the advanced campaign.

 
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Evolvent
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The OL may spent 2t (threat) to add or upgrade a dice for any monster. For instance after a Skeleton attacks, you can roll additional dice (12t for a gold, silver, and black dice). You can also spend 2t for 1mp (movement point).


Ah, sure, totally forgot about that. Still have so much to learn.

Large Monsters

Everything clear now, thank you for the great examples. I found I just stupidly misread the rules, somehow thinking that the large monster must either rotate or do a diagonal sidestep. (Maybe also because of the examples at the JitD rulebook page 17 where the forward move isn't shown a single time?)

Quote:
You are right, Kobolds suck, but there is a situation for everything in Descent imo. When you are in late Silver, everything dies in 1-2 hits (especially copper monsters).

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/23954883#23954883

Check this out. Every once in awhile you can have LoS work out for you.


I've actually had a look at it before asking and that was one nice use of them. Never had such an opportunity, though. (They're probably useless as the initial monster choice — which is how I got them.)

Quote:
What I usually do is trigger my guard before the OL gains threat and cards (when in a dungeon) so that they don't draw a Dodge card to change result. In a PBF, when you are dealing with playing with multiple players in multiple timezones, for simplicity sake, it is easier to use the guard before the OL takes his turn.


Well, but why do you take the guard at all? Why don't use either Advance or Battle (depending on what the other 1/2-action was)? Do you do it when you need for some reason to be able to play with one hero in the middle of the turn of another? (That would make sense, and I've seen some situations where it pays off.)

Quote:
This game isn't meant to be easy. You are severely hurting yourself and your group to ignore a very important game mechanic. See the top where the OL can still make use of his threat.


Okay, I'll reintroduce them. Time works for the OL indeed.

(I didn't mean easy. I just didn't use the threat very much, so what we did is just wait for the other side to go out of the trees. And that was boring.)

Quote:
This is the advanced campaign. In a world where we want instant gratification, this game is long and can be 60+ hours. Fleeing is a VERY important part of the game and in my opinion, the overland board is more important than the dungeons.


It just seemed to me that it's so easy for the OL to harass the players indefinitely, especially with the Ascension plot where razing cities does matter even more than normally.

But since I see that possibility, I use it, of course.

Quote:
BTW, Telekinesis is NOT allowed in the advanced campaign.


That was just from the top of my head. If it was allowed, well, then I could probably pack up my things and call it.
 
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Evolvent
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Some more questions have emerged:

More random questions
1) Are the healing potions as bad as they seem to be? (Healing 3 wounds when you can expect getting 10+ more in the next turn is puny.)
2) Is it a viable strategy for overlord to cut off the way completely in the dungeon? Ex.: In quite a few dungeons, there is a single 2 square corridor connecting the entrance and the exit. If I've got 2 Crushing Blocks, is there anything heroes can do when I block the corridor with rubble? (This could be great for barring the heroes' way to an unfavorable rumor, kicking them out of a legendary dungeon (looking at you, Fool's Rapids) &c.) (Actually I was once in a position when I was able to do that, but then it was better just to beat the heroes up, achieve a near TPK and let them run )

If OK, is it acceptable, or is it considered a cowardly strategy and frowned upon?

3) Can a hero move triggered by a Crushing Block (for example; or another trap) be a trigger for another trap?
 
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Lanabound
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Well, but why do you take the guard at all? Why don't use either Advance or Battle (depending on what the other 1/2-action was)? Do you do it when you need for some reason to be able to play with one hero in the middle of the turn of another? (That would make sense, and I've seen some situations where it pays off.)

Guard is useful when the hero lacks range to a monster and wants the overlord to close the remaining distance.

Guard is also useful simply to delay your attack. A guarding hero does not have to commit to his attack unlike an advancing or battling hero. He can see what happens during the rest of the hero round, then make his attack immediately at the start of the OL turn.
 
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duhtch
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evolvent wrote:
Some more questions have emerged:

More random questions
1) Are the healing potions as bad as they seem to be? (Healing 3 wounds when you can expect getting 10+ more in the next turn is puny.)
2) Is it a viable strategy for overlord to cut off the way completely in the dungeon? Ex.: In quite a few dungeons, there is a single 2 square corridor connecting the entrance and the exit. If I've got 2 Crushing Blocks, is there anything heroes can do when I block the corridor with rubble? (This could be great for barring the heroes' way to an unfavorable rumor, kicking them out of a legendary dungeon (looking at you, Fool's Rapids) &c.) (Actually I was once in a position when I was able to do that, but then it was better just to beat the heroes up, achieve a near TPK and let them run )

If OK, is it acceptable, or is it considered a cowardly strategy and frowned upon?

3) Can a hero move triggered by a Crushing Block (for example; or another trap) be a trigger for another trap?


1) It depends on your situation, but typically you will want to heal at the market for 5w.

2/3) I'd suggest opening up the FAQ and do a search for Crushing Block. It will give you more detail to your questions. The answer is no, you cannot do what you are describing.
 
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Evolvent
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2/3) I'd suggest opening up the FAQ and do a search for Crushing Block. It will give you more detail to your questions. The answer is no, you cannot do what you are describing.


Sorry, I looked into an outdated version of FAQ and of course didn't find anything. My wrong ...
 
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Evolvent
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Guard is useful when the hero lacks range to a monster and wants the overlord to close the remaining distance.


Sure, but that doesn't answer the question What's the point in using the guard up at the very start of OL's turn? (That was the original question which is probably somewhere around the top of the thread.)

Quote:
Guard is also useful simply to delay your attack. (...)


So my speculation that you do it when you need for some reason to be able to play with one hero in the middle of the turn of another was right it seems.

But — thank you anyway!
 
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Jan Tuijp
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duhtch wrote:
You are right, Kobolds suck, but there is a situation for everything in Descent imo.


Actually I've seen several such situations. Hence my somewhat more favourable notion of the little guys ("They're freaking awesome!"). Especially in tiny dungeons where heroes get easily distracted by too much loot ("Let's split up!") it is sometimes possible to spawn them in unexpected places. And a well placed crushing block can create nice spawning opportunities next turn. Though I never had the chance to use it myself in combination with kobolds, "Gust of Winds" might actually be useful for once also.

Furthermore (since they come in herds) they're quite useful to block passageways and make the heroes waste time (unless they have blast weapons or other dirty equipment). And if you can't surprise the heroes, you can split the little critters up and put them on top of loot and glyphs, stalling the heroes. If you are able to surprise a hero, use the masters to hurt them. If not, spawn the masters in distant corners and make full use of their trickster ability.

Heroes tend to underestimate kobolds and when the time is right and the planets are aligned a shrewd OL can make them pay for that.

 
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Evolvent
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And if you can't surprise the heroes, you can split the little critters up and put them on top of loot and glyphs, stalling the heroes.


That's actually a nice idea, thank you! (Only if they didn't cost so much threat in RtL.)
 
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