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Subject: Overpriced GeekBay - Commenting is disrespectful, but ironically hot deals are praised rss

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Dan
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Been following the GeekBay auctions ever since I joined and I've noticed a semi-recurring theme. An auction gets posted with what are clearly ludicrous BINs or Starting Reserves.

Someone (usually newer) comments and says, "hey you're asking new prices for used games, these can be found on 'x' website for the same price" to which they are scolded with something to the effect of, "Please don't post criticisms of prices, if you have a concern send the seller a GM."

Now let me start by saying that I would be slightly annoyed if someone deterred my business because there are better deals out there, but the reality is, we as consumers should be informed and understand what other options are available. This is the whole reason we have a Hot Deals section, which people are praised for contributing to.

A large part of why I joined BGG was the tight knit community and the fact that (as a general rule) it seems like everyone wants to help each other. It seems to me that by having this "don't comment" and "hey it's capitalism" philosophy we aren't acting in the spirit of why we are on BGG (at least for me).

While much of the onus falls on ourselves to ensure we're not getting ripped off, I'd like to think that this community will have each other's back to help get the best deals so that we can spend the same money on more games. At the end of the day, we are all here because we want to play more games, I'm just surprised (that in this particular facet) we stray from helping each other do that.


End of my diatribe; still love the community!!
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Aaron Senser
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Agree 100%. As a someone who sells used items a lot, I have no problem when people call me out if I overpriced something.
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Leonard Moses II
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Spielboy.com is nice to know how to use. If everyone used it then no one would need to comment or comment about commenting.

And the rest of the "powersellers" (please note critical tone) on here would sell less games maybe.

I really like how this whole hobby is set up to be very user friendly and how it has been set up to put all of the power into the buyers hands.

Try not to pay more than the game has been historically sold at.
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Patrick C.
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darkestoceans wrote:
Spielboy.com is nice to know how to use. If everyone used it then no one would need to comment or comment about commenting.

And the rest of the "powersellers" (please note critical tone) on here would sell less games maybe.

I really like how this whole hobby is set up to be very user friendly and how it has been set up to put all of the power into the buyers hands.

Try not to pay more than the game has been historically sold at.


One of the problems is that spielboy is only about the value on BGG. It's not as if value is written in stone. There are games that get top dollar here and there are games that sell for more on other sites which makes it even more difficult for the average seller to know what to expect for a selling price.

Lastly, I don't know if I've seen anyone balk at the idea of being contacted directly via GM about their prices. Posting to someone's auction is a bit off putting especially since the people who do it seem to always think the seller is dishonest instead of misinformed. It creates a real hostile environment.
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Matthew Kokaly
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I'm not sure how many buyers participating in geekbay auctions need a public comment about pricing. It seems like anyone who pays MSRP like prices at a geekbay auction must have their reasons other than ignorance.

The only issue I have with auctions with prices higher than the market is that it potentially discourage people from participating as buyers in the future if they get the impression that this is typical.

I agree that geekmail is the right place, I've received GM when I inadvertently had a high price on an item and adjust my price accordingly. Making the public would have made me look predatory instead of just making an all too human mistake listing on one or two of a large number of games.


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Cone Defense wrote:
At the end of the day, we are all here because we want to play more games, I'm just surprised (that in this particular facet) we stray from helping each other do that.



If the point of the hobby is to play more games, and to enable others to do so - not just game sellers by selling at a "reasonable price" - any chance you can ship me some of your collection?

For free or greatly reduced cost (to me)?
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Cone Defense wrote:
Been following the GeekBay auctions ever since I joined and I've noticed a semi-recurring theme. An auction gets posted with what are clearly ludicrous BINs or Starting Reserves.

Someone (usually newer) comments and says, "hey you're asking new prices for used games, these can be found on 'x' website for the same price" to which they are scolded with something to the effect of, "Please don't post criticisms of prices, if you have a concern send the seller a GM."

Now let me start by saying that I would be slightly annoyed if someone deterred my business because there are better deals out there, but the reality is, we as consumers should be informed and understand what other options are available. This is the whole reason we have a Hot Deals section, which people are praised for contributing to.

A large part of why I joined BGG was the tight knit community and the fact that (as a general rule) it seems like everyone wants to help each other. It seems to me that by having this "don't comment" and "hey it's capitalism" philosophy we aren't acting in the spirit of why we are on BGG (at least for me).

While much of the onus falls on ourselves to ensure we're not getting ripped off, I'd like to think that this community will have each other's back to help get the best deals so that we can spend the same money on more games. At the end of the day, we are all here because we want to play more games, I'm just surprised (that in this particular facet) we stray from helping each other do that.


End of my diatribe; still love the community!!


I guess I have never read a comment within a P2P auction, glorifying a buyer when they horked the seller by landing a game for pennies on the dollar.

Your conflation of commenting on "hot deals" from retailers with those of private seller auctions is misleading, because they are not the same thing. One is by a faceless company and the other is by members of "the community" in which you profess to want to support.

If the community can comment on how a buyer ripped off a seller by landing steals (which is in bad taste), then I don't see why BGGers can't comment on over-priced items in a BGG auction (also bad taste).

I guess neither are in good taste, so perhaps we shouldn't condone either?

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Ben B
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I don't think it's always the act of pointing out a price discrepancy on an auction but rather the way it's worded. In a space where intentions can't always be deciphered and facial expressions and body language can't be seen or interpreted, my opinion is that a personal message is the way to go.

When this has happened to me in the past, it seems to deligitimize my auction or item. The person commented on a product that was long OOP and was, according to my research, fairly priced.

I don't run huge auctions, so I tend to research and scrutinize my products. A comment, to me, merely seems like an unnecessary criticism. I would much prefer to have a personal message where we can discuss the situation. A Geeklist comment can also turn into a "gang up on the auction holder" where nothing they can really say will help the situation. So then they are usually faced with decreasing the price or not selling the item.

I see tons of items in auctions that I think are overpriced. I simply recognize that they are an autonomous human being and can price things the way they want. I then move on to another auction and find a better deal.
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Chapel
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I'm a fairly well informed consumer when it comes to value of games and where to find that information. Not everyone is. If I find that an auction is consistently over valued, I usually just ignore it. I know given enough time there WILL be a better valued auction price for the same game. Some people of course would rather pay a higher premium than, well, be patient. More to them.

I find nothing wrong with informing other people better options on an auction list, because really, why not? More information is better than less. This isn't a boardgame....table talk should be allowed. I don't care if sellers find it disrespectful. Give the information, and let consumers decide if it's useful or not.
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Hanwen Dong
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At the end of the day it's the buyers who are at loss for not being informed of the current market prices or not doing enough research. I have seen those who bid on items that are priced higher than Amazon and even the geek market. If only they click on the auction item link, and scroll down just a little bit..shake
 
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Cone Defense wrote:
...to which they are scolded with something to the effect of, "Please don't post criticisms of prices, if you have a concern send the seller a GM."
BGG has always harbored something of a Pollyanna syndrome where every game is awesome, every designer is a genius (and a nice guy/gal,) every seller is benevolent, every buyer is a good chap, and anyone attempting to do anything that might sorta, kinda, almost, have anything *GASP* contradictory (which is always painted as "negative") to say is branded a heretic and silenced.

It's one thing to be a dick and make fun of a seller for their prices or to actively insult them (which should be pointed out & minimized,) but simply pointing out a large discrepancy in price should never be met with the smiley-face mafia throwing it back in your face for your presumed thought-crime.
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Ben B
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MWChapel wrote:
I'm a fairly well informed consumer when it comes to value of games and where to find that information. Not everyone is. If I find that an auction is consistently over valued, I usually just ignore it. I know given enough time there WILL be a better valued auction price for the same game. Some people of course would rather pay a higher premium than, well, be patient. More to them.

I find nothing wrong with informing other people better options on an auction list, because really, why not? More information is better than less. This isn't a boardgame....table talk should be allowed. I don't care if sellers find it disrespectful. Give the information, and let consumers decide if it's useful or not.

It appears from your profile that you have never run your own BGG Auction. Maybe you should give it a go some time and see how you feel when others (like yourself) conduct themselves in a way that you perceive as disrespectful. Then maybe you will have a better understanding.
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Merely pointing out alternative sources of cheaper games is not disrespectful. It might be received as unwanted or annoying, but that does not make it disrespectful.
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Ben B
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enoon wrote:
Merely pointing out alternative sources of cheaper games is not disrespectful to me.

Fixed that for you.

Auctions are not simple. Sellers can put a lot of time and energy into an auction. They should be able to run them the way that they want and determine, for themselves, what is appropriate or inappropriate conduct.
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Paul Sauberer
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benchilada wrote:
enoon wrote:
Merely pointing out alternative sources of cheaper games is not disrespectful to me.

Fixed that for you.

Auctions are not simple. Sellers can put a lot of time and energy into an auction. They should be able to run them the way that they want and determine, for themselves, what is appropriate or inappropriate conduct.


And if they wish to host their own auction site where they can limit comments they are free to do so.

If, however, they choose to utilize someone else's venue they can't complain about their inability to run things the way they want.
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Jeremy Shelton
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I think the operative rule here, as in many other contexts, is just don't be a jerk. There is nothing inherently immoral about pointing out that a seller's price is unjustifiably higher than other outlets offering the same product, but don't be a jerk when you do it. In some cases it will annoy the seller because he/she was hoping to capitalize on some buyer's ignorance of the market. In other cases it will educate the seller because he/she genuinely did not know what fair market value was for the item. In the former case, I think the comment is still justified because trying to make a buck off of another person's ignorance seems to go against the spirit of this community. In the latter case, the comment is helpful because the seller wants to sell his/her game just as much as a buyer wants to get a fair price. If you do post a comment about perceived overpricing, be polite, offer evidence to justify your point, and assume the seller is not trying to price gouge.
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Tim Earl
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Cone Defense wrote:
This is the whole reason we have a Hot Deals section, which people are praised for contributing to.


Do you ever read the Hot Deals forum?

It seems like at least half of the posts there receive comments from the Hot Deals Forum Police stating that "this isn't a hot deal" or criticizing them for not following their preferred, very specific, format in their posts.
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Ben B
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Psauberer wrote:
benchilada wrote:
enoon wrote:
Merely pointing out alternative sources of cheaper games is not disrespectful to me.

Fixed that for you.

Auctions are not simple. Sellers can put a lot of time and energy into an auction. They should be able to run them the way that they want and determine, for themselves, what is appropriate or inappropriate conduct.


And if they wish to host their own auction site where they can limit comments they are free to do so.

If, however, they choose to utilize someone else's venue they can't complain about their inability to run things the way they want.

That venue you are referring to has an "etiquette" section for auctions (https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/geeklist_auction). In that section the following quote can be found, "It is not appropriate to point out that a seller's items are over-priced. Value is in the eye of the bidder. If it is too high for you, move to another auction. If it really bothers you, contact that seller in a private GeekMail."

So, yes, someone can choose to host their own website for auctions. OR they can try and depend on the goodwill of those on the website to be courteous and respectful.
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Stephen McHale
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I agree completely. Sometimes the forum police can get a little annoying.

While we are complaining about auctions...

I hate when people list the starting bid really close to the bin. $21 starting bid and $23 bin. Drives me crazy. Just saying.
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Chapel
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benchilada wrote:

That venue you are referring to has an "etiquette" section for auctions (https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/geeklist_auction). In that section the following quote can be found, "It is not appropriate to point out that a seller's items are over-priced. Value is in the eye of the bidder. If it is too high for you, move to another auction. If it really bothers you, contact that seller in a private GeekMail."


Anyone can edit that wiki to say anything they want. I don't think referencing the wiki is the end all for what is and what is not considered etiquette.
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Jon Baxter
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No such thing as over priced items, it's worth that to someone somewhere.


Of course someone may think something is over priced and they have every right to believe it.

We can just vote Walmart to be the world wide government instead of course, maybe have Amazon in charge of the military, voila, all is perfect in the world.


In any case I sell games often, I could care less what Walmart or Amazon or a black friday sale price is, seriously, express your opinion of "high prices" by buying elsewhere and leaving those that don't share that opinion alone.

I regularly buy at "high prices" (also known as the msrp or fair market value) at my local flgs or elsewhere, I sometimes even buy from evil people who are 'taking advantage' and 'exploiting prices', which buy that I mean I buy from people who are selling something for a fair price because something is rare, hard to find, isn't available where I am, or 'insert circumstance here'.

In short, I don't much care what a price is 'supposed to be', I'll buy and sell for what works for me.



Also to the OP;

Cone Defense wrote:
I'm just surprised (that in this particular facet) we stray from helping each other do that.!


Thank you mommy, I appreciate it. (not actually no)

I've got news for you, every price you have ever paid on anything is likely too much, you should wait for a good deal. (truly)

Please forgive the following sarcasm meant mostly as a joke;

Seriously, why buy a game for anything other than the $5 at a thrift store, or wait for a store to go out of business (more of those all the time) and buy games for pennies on the dollar... I've bought many games at thrift stores and bankruptcy auctions, I think that when anyone sells anything for more than pennies on the dollar they are evil ultra capitalists. (kidding to illustrate a point)


Anyway do as you will, just stop antagonizing people that would like to auction games.

Oh an in closing, I sell on ebay as well, and there's more than one person who stole from me because they didn't want to pay a price they thought was too much (and yet couldn't find it for cheaper, interesting eh?).

That being said, I wish you good day sir. meeple
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Marc S
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I don't see anything wrong with commenting on a price. We actively thank people who say, "nice price" but throw a fit if someone asks why a seller is asking MSRP.
 
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Jon Baxter
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marcss wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with commenting on a price. We actively thank people who say, "nice price" but throw a fit if someone asks why a seller is asking MSRP.


Rules.
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Dave
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It's annoying as hell, but not for the reason people think.

It's incredibly condescending to me, the reader (and potential buyer). So you think I don't know anything about the basics of online shopping? Think you're the knight in shining armor protecting the gaming masses from (gasp!) overspending?

Quote:
In other cases it will educate the seller because he/she genuinely did not know what fair market value was for the item.


Get over yourself.
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Jon Baxter
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MWChapel wrote:
benchilada wrote:

That venue you are referring to has an "etiquette" section for auctions (https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/geeklist_auction). In that section the following quote can be found, "It is not appropriate to point out that a seller's items are over-priced. Value is in the eye of the bidder. If it is too high for you, move to another auction. If it really bothers you, contact that seller in a private GeekMail."


Anyone can edit that wiki to say anything they want. I don't think referencing the wiki is the end all for what is and what is not considered etiquette.



!! CONSPIRACY THEORY !! laugh

*
octavian wrote:

It is not appropriate to point out that a seller's items are over-priced. Value is in the eye of the bidder. If it is too high for you, move to another auction. If it really bothers you, contact that seller in a private GeekMail.



I can't speak to jfk or the moon landings my friend, but at least I sorted that one out for you.


*
By that I mean that an admin having read and given tacit approval to a previous version and current version of the wiki should be considered reasonable enough. Besides that I've anecdotal experiences over time that it's how it works.
 
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