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Subject: Please - professional text rss

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Universal Head
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Sorry to be a bit OT, but the publishers seem to be quite active here, and since I've backed this game as well as Conan, I'd like to see one thing addressed this time.

The type layout on the spell cards in Conan is painfully amateurish and hard to read. Because of the poor choice to justify the text, there are huge gaps between words, unnecessary hyphenations - it's just enough to make any professional graphic design cringe with pain, basically.

Please folks, get an experienced, professional graphic designer to check all the text in Mythic Battles Pantheon before you start printing. Not only will it make everything look better, but it'll make the game easier to play. And never full justify text unless you really know what you're doing!
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Emivaldo Sousa
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This is a very sensible request. Very.
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James
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Michael D. Kelley
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I want to be sure they open the components up to some professional gamers and editors in general. I have an earlier thread that details a ton of small clarifications needed on unit dashboards. And the rulebook is a bit of a mess at the moment. Not an impossible mess, but certainly flawed.

Is there a plan to elicit backer feedback in some formal system at the end of the campaign? Professionals is the ideal, but at least using fan input could be a start.
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Benoit VOGT
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UniversalHead wrote:
Sorry to be a bit OT, but the publishers seem to be quite active here, and since I've backed this game as well as Conan, I'd like to see one thing addressed this time.

The type layout on the spell cards in Conan is painfully amateurish and hard to read. Because of the poor choice to justify the text, there are huge gaps between words, unnecessary hyphenations - it's just enough to make any professional graphic design cringe with pain, basically.

Please folks, get an experienced, professional graphic designer to check all the text in Mythic Battles Pantheon before you start printing. Not only will it make everything look better, but it'll make the game easier to play. And never full justify text unless you really know what you're doing!


We are aware of Conan's issues and do not want to reproduce the same situation. Did you check out the beta version of the rules of Mythic Battles: Pantheon available on the KS page? We are receiving very good feedbacks about this document

We are taking all actions possible to come up with something as clean as possible. Quirkworthy will help finalize the rules and I trust that the final result will be more than satisfactory.
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Benoit VOGT
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I forgot: we will take into consideration the feedbacks we will get before we come up with a final versions of the rules.
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Universal Head
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Thanks Benoit - note however I'm referring to graphic design and typography, not the text itself.

I haven't read the MB rules yet, but after a quick look, the layout is very much improved from the Conan rulebook, though I can still see lots of errors even on a quick pass. It's still fully justified text unfortunately, but since the font size is smaller it works a bit better. But go ragged right, it's easier to read.

By the way I played Conan for the first time tonight, and yes, the rules are very ambiguously worded in parts, but man it was a fantastic game. We really, really enjoyed it.

Please, just get a more professional, experienced designer who understands how to lay out type properly for MB.
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Michael D. Kelley
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Benoit0905 wrote:
I forgot: we will take into consideration the feedbacks we will get before we come up with a final versions of the rules.


Benoit, is there an official forum to submit errors and clarifications we see in the rules/components? I'm worried suggestions will get lost in the flurry of the end of the campaign.

You guys are doing an amazing job, by the way!
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Daniel Guinoza
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UniversalHead wrote:
Sorry to be a bit OT, but the publishers seem to be quite active here, and since I've backed this game as well as Conan, I'd like to see one thing addressed this time.

The type layout on the spell cards in Conan is painfully amateurish and hard to read. Because of the poor choice to justify the text, there are huge gaps between words, unnecessary hyphenations - it's just enough to make any professional graphic design cringe with pain, basically.

Please folks, get an experienced, professional graphic designer to check all the text in Mythic Battles Pantheon before you start printing. Not only will it make everything look better, but it'll make the game easier to play. And never full justify text unless you really know what you're doing!


Some of the boxes (small ones) have a good layout. The big boxes have a bad layout (but the art is good). Also, the letter U looks like L I.

GameMasterX0 wrote:
Benoit, is there an official forum to submit errors and clarifications we see in the rules/components?


You could always post to the 'Rules' subforum.

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James
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I'll echo UH's comments about full justification (I have to teach my students how to justify, so it's a topic of conversation every year for me); it is a little jarring on the cards as it stands. While this might seem nitpicky; there is a difference in how the product reads. It's worth it to have someone with an eye for these details to produce a result that is pleasing. Thanks for listening; Conan is a blast and I expect MB to be as well!

Your work on Tales of the Arabian Nights is beautiful, by the way, UH, as, of course, are your scores and scores of professional looking player aids.

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Universal Head
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Thanks James. Personally I think full justification should only be used in the rarest of circumstances, and definitely not on little cards with 3 or 4 words per line! As you know, using it requires great attention to detail, as you have to fully conversant with the hyphenation and justification settings in inDesign, and even then you have to check everything carefully to see that no visual gaps or 'rivers' are appearing in the text.

For some reason people think full justification looks more professional, when it fact it usually looks the opposite because it hasn't been done properly.

The text on the cards and reference sheets is poor - on one of the reference cards the letter spacing is all crammed together even though the word spacing is the same. The spell cards are the worst though, because of the short line length. It makes them very difficult to read.

It’s just a great shame to see such basic design problems in an otherwise high quality production – but it’s a symptom of anyone being allowed to use a graphic design programme and call themselves a graphic designer these days! (Grumble grumble get off my lawn etc)
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Jack
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UH, whether it is in graphic design or game aids, there is you, and then everyone else.
 
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James Hébert
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UniversalHead wrote:

For some reason people think full justification looks more professional, when it fact it usually looks the opposite because it hasn't been done properly.

With you, there! I have never understood why this is so. Perhaps people wrongly think "Gee, you never see this... it will get attention if I do it this way."

This, and all-centered text drive my eyes crazy.

FFG used to use center justified card text 100% of the time. They left-justified the cards in Forbidden Stars, which was a treat! However, they messed up in the new Arkham Horror LCG. While all game card text is left justified, the text area is a curved scroll and someone had the bright idea to "follow the curve of the left left edge". Once again, an anchor for the eye changes line by line, making the act of reading more fatiguing on the eyes and brain.

A European style that I must admit I dislike is the lack of placing space after each paragraph, coupled with the succeeding paragraph not being indented. Space, or an indent, is fine. The lack of both makes it VERY hard to skim the page when looking for information. Looking at the downloadable manual, I am ... challenged.

Grumble.
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