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Subject: What board gaming has done to me... rss

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Matt Pedersen
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Here I was less than a year ago, content with my countless plays of Catan from college, looking for games to play for New Year's Eve with my family. Lo and behold! I could purchase Catan, Pandemic, and Bang! all at the same place - Target! Wooohooo!

Now here I am less than a year later, I think safe to say thousands of $$$ into this hobby, basically hit 100 games once my preorders come in, 6 kickstarters backed (yet to receive any of them), and this past month I have been yearning for something with more depth... But what...

I had my eye on Feudum and something just didn't seem to catch with me, too many things going on at the same time I think. So I nix that idea, then I scour the internet with videos full of game reviews and feast my eyes on a Feast for Odin! OoS... Dang! Preorder it, get it a week later, yet still didn't feel like it would fill that desire for complexity.

So I explored the trail of Youtube video reviews for games until I came across Great Western Trail. "Hmmm, that'll do!" And of course gotta add a few more games to get free shipping! But, why did this appeal to me so much, maybe I just like more complex games and can't wait to get them to the table! So I continue my search for more...

Then, my eyes found their way to a masterpiece of a game, The Gallerist, DANG! OoS as well and low distribution, where could I get it? Hmmmmm... Maybe BGG will help... Lisboa? *watches videos* "SOLD!" and I can get the Gallerist as an addon!

It's crazy what this hobby does to you after only a short time. Ignorance to Masochism in the hope of burning my brain on the countless strategies of the games Vital Lacerda has waiting for me.

P.S. Looking for a good dice drafting game if anyone wants to help a brother out! Can't wait for Lorenzo Il Magnifico to come to the US!
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For dice drafting, here are my two suggestions:

* La Granja
* Troyes

Both games are masterful in my opinion. La Granja has a small dice pool that represent some actions, everyone takes turn taking a dice (and a corresponding action), and finally everyone will take the action of the one die leftover. This game mixes a bunch of mechanics together in a really pleasant way.

Troyes on the other hand is less direct in terms of drafting. You have to get worker into certain slots which will provide you with different color dice that you can use for specific actions. What's really neat is you can buy other players dice (including from 1 NPC), but it gets expensive the more dice you want to use. I really love this game.
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Shane Larsen
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Another great dice-drafting game to consider:

Grand Austria Hotel
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Phil Hendrickson
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While you wait for Lorenzo, why not try out its predecessor from the same designers? We just picked up Grand Austria Hotel in the new printing, and it has quickly become a favorite for me and my wife. It uses dice drafting a little better than La Granja, in my opinion, although we have also played that game many times. People with short attention spans whine about downtime in a four-player game, but I don't think it is that bad. And it works great with two or three players. La Granja has that cool multi-use card thing going on, but Grand Austria Hotel offers smoother play overall.

And while we are talking about smooth play, do yourself a favor and check out Concordia. The box cover art is awful, but the game is amazing and packs a ton of decisions and planning into a game that is easy to teach and get going. Each game has a great arc from start to middle to finish. And it has enough maps available to tailor the game to your play group, from two to five players.

BTW, if you are looking for games on the more complex end of the spectrum, check out the podcast Heavy Cardboard. They will have you spending money in no time!


Edit: Doh! Ninja'd by Shane!
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Matt Pedersen
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DrumPhil wrote:
While you wait for Lorenzo, why not try out its predecessor from the same designers? We just picked up Grand Austria Hotel in the new printing, and it has quickly become a favorite for me and my wife. It uses dice drafting a little better than La Granja, in my opinion, although we have also played that game many times. People with short attention spans whine about downtime in a four-player game, but I don't think it is that bad. And it works great with two or three players. La Granja has that cool multi-use card thing going on, but Grand Austria Hotel offers smoother play overall.

And while we are talking about smooth play, do yourself a favor and check out Concordia. The box cover art is awful, but the game is amazing and packs a ton of decisions and planning into a game that is easy to teach and get going. Each game has a great arc from start to middle to finish. And it has enough maps available to tailor the game to your play group, from two to five players.

BTW, if you are looking for games on the more complex end of the spectrum, check out the podcast Heavy Cardboard. They will have you spending money in no time!


Edit: Doh! Ninja'd by Shane!


I looked into Concordia, but I went the route of Hansa Teutonica for boring looking box cover. Everyone has to have at least one on their shelves, am I right? haha


I will definitely take a look at Grand Austria Hotel, I do have Voyages of Marco Polo, but it is yet to hit the table and that is more of a dice placement, not quite dice draft.
 
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Cory Yates
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Oh Matt...you really must get La Granja and Grand Austria Hotel


Like...right now. La Granja is my preference but both are excellent.


If you are looking for something a little more obscure that has received favorable reviews from Heavy Cardboard and Rahdo...get Panthalos Its very low stock everywhere and I'm not sure if its the type of game that'll get a reprint.
 
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Michael Cabral
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How about Panamax for dice drafting?
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Adrian Todea
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Signorie is another favourite of ours.
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Phil Triest
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Cabralicus wrote:
How about Panamax for dice drafting?


I'd wait until the game is fixed up. I have a feeling the Portuguese maestros may revisit it and look at tightening the couple of big problems that game has and rerelease in years to come.
 
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Phil Triest
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tzutzy wrote:
Signorie is another favourite of ours.


Yeah that's about the best dice drafter I've played even if I'd prefer to play ZhanGuo that utilised the same premises but with cards.
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Justin Haviland
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philtrees wrote:
Cabralicus wrote:
How about Panamax for dice drafting?


I'd wait until the game is fixed up. I have a feeling the Portuguese maestros may revisit it and look at tightening the couple of big problems that game has and rerelease in years to come.


Can you elaborate on that? What are those big problems?
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Jason Brown
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Another vote for La Granja. It was one of my first real euros I played and it helped broaden my gaming horizons a great deal.

By the by, I too only discovered Vital not so long ago. I bought the KS version of The Gallerist from CoolStuffInc. last month. It's out of stock at the moment, but they're the only U.S. retailer I'm aware of that carries it and they may get more in. Keep an eye on it and you may not need to wait for Lisboa to deliver to play it!
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Y P
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Looks like The Gallerist is available directly from EGG's website (eaglegames.net) if you need it now. They also have Vinhos Deluxe, which is another Vital Lacerda design. A bit lighter than The Gallerist and Lisboa but still quite meaty.

Some other ideas if you're in the mood for heavier games:

Zhanguo - simple actions but the implications and interconnection of possibilities are very brain burning.

Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilization - card driven play with a lot of different strategies to pursue and plenty of direct conflict unlike most Euros.

If you're up for games that are heavy and aren't your typical Euros the COIN series is fantastic. That's a whole different rabbit hole to go down, so I'll leave you to it

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Shane Larsen
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Another heavy dice-drafting game is

Madeira

IMO, it's the heaviest in its class.
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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Vital's own rating of his games by weight:

newrev wrote:
This is my weight scale (from the lightest to the heavyest):

1. Vinhos 2016
2. The Gallerist
3. Lisboa
4. CO2
5. Vinhos 2010
6. Kanban

But anyway, only my opinion. You of course, have a different one.


BGG average weight by title:

Lisboa 3.73
CO2 3.88
Vinhos Deluxe 3.88
Vinhos 4.19
Gallerist 4.28
Kanban 4.28
 
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Johan Ek
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Yet another vote for La Granja. Not because of it's weight, but because of its loveliness

As someone other pointed out, if you want both weight/meaty-ness and dice drafting, Madeira should interest you. I still haven't played it myself. It is on the shelf though, and by reading the rules it sure seems pretty heavy. Bora Bora is heavy enough and is probably my favorite dice placement game next to Troyes.

Now, if you are willing to leave the dice behind, then you really should check out The Colonist. The best game IMO to still that insatiable hunger, which I know all too well.

Additional namedrop in that realm: Through the Ages, Dominant Species, Terra Mystica, Vinhos 2010 and maybe Eclipse with expansions.

 
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Snooze Fest
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These aren't necessarily dice drafting, but all make interesting use of dice:
Yspahan
Macao
La Granja
Madeira
My Village
Signorie
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Mark Gilbertson
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mped68 wrote:
Here I was less than a year ago, content with my countless plays of Catan from college, looking for games to play for New Year's Eve with my family. Lo and behold! I could purchase Catan, Pandemic, and Bang! all at the same place - Target! Wooohooo!

Now here I am less than a year later, I think safe to say thousands of $$$ into this hobby, basically hit 100 games once my preorders come in, 6 kickstarters backed (yet to receive any of them), and this past month I have been yearning for something with more depth... But what...

I had my eye on Feudum and something just didn't seem to catch with me, too many things going on at the same time I think. So I nix that idea, then I scour the internet with videos full of game reviews and feast my eyes on a Feast for Odin! OoS... Dang! Preorder it, get it a week later, yet still didn't feel like it would fill that desire for complexity.

So I explored the trail of Youtube video reviews for games until I came across Great Western Trail. "Hmmm, that'll do!" And of course gotta add a few more games to get free shipping! But, why did this appeal to me so much, maybe I just like more complex games and can't wait to get them to the table! So I continue my search for more...

Then, my eyes found their way to a masterpiece of a game, The Gallerist, DANG! OoS as well and low distribution, where could I get it? Hmmmmm... Maybe BGG will help... Lisboa? *watches videos* "SOLD!" and I can get the Gallerist as an addon!

It's crazy what this hobby does to you after only a short time. Ignorance to Masochism in the hope of burning my brain on the countless strategies of the games Vital Lacerda has waiting for me.

P.S. Looking for a good dice drafting game if anyone wants to help a brother out! Can't wait for Lorenzo Il Magnifico to come to the US!

... watch out my dear fellow, a 1000 game collection sneaks up on you faster than you'll think possible, much faster than a modest bank account could ever keep up with. Solution? Behemoth credit card balances! Worked for me,,,,, crysoblueyuk
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Michael Frost

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Just a few "heavier" game suggestions geared toward games that are beautiful to look at:

- Burano
- Quebec
- Trajan
- Tzolk'in

And a big "yes" to ZhanQuo, which only seems daunting at first until you realize you only get 30 cards (6 for each of the 5 rounds) and you can either only tuck a card under your own player board (which you'll do about 10-15 times per game) or place one on the game board to take one of six actions (e.g., build a palace or wall, deploy a governor, hire workers, move resources, etc.). And if your numbered card is either higher or lower than the card directly underneath it, you can use the tucked cards showing the same action to get free resources or actions. So if you tuck 15 cards, you'll take just 15 actions. And those last couple rounds lots happens...

And if you enjoy the action point mechanism, don't forget the Mask Trilogy: Java, Mexica, and Tikal. Plus their sibling, Torres.
 
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Michael Cabral
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jhaviland wrote:
philtrees wrote:
Cabralicus wrote:
How about Panamax for dice drafting?


I'd wait until the game is fixed up. I have a feeling the Portuguese maestros may revisit it and look at tightening the couple of big problems that game has and rerelease in years to come.


Can you elaborate on that? What are those big problems?


I disagree with Panamax having big problems. And I don't expect Phil to elaborate as he likes to act and post like Deadpool sometimes. I assume he is talking about times where there are "crappy" contracts available for loading. Well guess what, you can flip the contract over and make it generic and load a 3 die to any loading area. Panamax is relatively easy to learn but heavy at the same time with a lot of decisions to make. Some people complain that the stock market is tacked on but it is actually integral to siphoning money from your company and other opponents' companies into your personal stash.

thedacker wrote:
Another heavy dice-drafting game is

Madeira

IMO, it's the heaviest in its class.


I agree with this! Madeira is the heaviest and most satisfying to play when you get your Crown's Requests giving maximum Prestige Points. One of my favourite games to play. I taught my mom how to play so it isn't impossible.

EDIT: I wanted to add that you can mitigate bad dice by spending bread to bribe the dignitaries during the Action Phase. The characters move around between building and zones and the dice are tied with cost of the zones. Zone 3 needs a 3, Zone 2 a 2, etc. Pirate dice! Don't forget about the Pirate dice! You can use a Pirate die to essentially get an extra precious action at the cost of losing one of your workers in the City Guard (at least you have one less mouth to feed and you got a extra action. ) Even passing your turn allows you to strategically change the turn order and can give you an extra action or extra money!

Madeira is so good!
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Matt Pedersen
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Thanks everyone for the suggestions. The Dice drafting game doesn't have to be necessarily "heavy" but just all around good. Looking into Roll Player, Signorie, GAH, and some of the others mentioned
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Jimmy Hensel
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Nobody mentioned Food Chain Magnate.

No dice, but it can burn your brain! I've played it a couple of times, and even though I found the plays enjoyable, I got my backside handed to me on a platter by the winner of each of those plays.
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Adam P
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Quote:
I disagree with Panamax having big problems. And I don't expect Phil to elaborate as he likes to act and post like Deadpool sometimes. I assume he is talking about times where there are "crappy" contracts available for loading. Well guess what, you can flip the contract over and make it generic and load a 3 die to any loading area.

You don't get a flag for a generic contract. This can have serious impact on end game scoring, and can be a bit random. Still, not a bad game.

Quote:
Signorie is another favourite of ours.

Meh... the dice drafting is very fun, but the rest of the game has many problems.
 
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Michael Cabral
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adamredwoods wrote:
Quote:
I disagree with Panamax having big problems. And I don't expect Phil to elaborate as he likes to act and post like Deadpool sometimes. I assume he is talking about times where there are "crappy" contracts available for loading. Well guess what, you can flip the contract over and make it generic and load a 3 die to any loading area.

You don't get a flag for a generic contract. This can have serious impact on end game scoring, and can be a bit random. Still, not a bad game.

Quote:
Signorie is another favourite of ours.

Meh... the dice drafting is very fun, but the rest of the game has many problems.


That is correct you do not get a flag token but if all the available contracts are not compelling or no ships are available and you need to get dice out of the warehouse to save on cargo fees then it is the best option. I also as a rule of thumb do not keep flag financial advisor cards and go for the other ones like luxury tours, group tours, offshore accounts or diverse portfolio. International Expeditor is an okay one as well but I almost always pass on the Favored Nation cards.

In the last game I played, there weren't any ships on the US East dock but all the face-up contracts were EU and US East. I then built by 3-slot ship and placed it there for others to use. Loaded up one cargo with a 2-cargo contract since I can only load once onto a ship. I would then have other players load on my ship or I will load up my last cargo on my next turn. Only one player loaded on my ship. The other players selected the two new contracts that came up after our turns. I picked up another contract but went generic and loaded the 3 onto the US West side and completed by US East with the load action in the same turn. Filling up my 3-slot ship and loading removing 3 dice from my warehouse with less than compelling contracts.

That's one real example that I used to mitigate the bad luck of the contracts. You just have to manage with what you've got and minimize the damage on those rounds. Not having a good round or two doesn't mean the game is broken it just means you didn't manage your company well with the circumstances given to you.
 
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Matt Pedersen
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Well because of all you people, I spent too much money on more games...

I got a variety of weightiness in the dice mechanisms

La Granja: No siesta
Grand Austria Hotel
La Granja
Troyes (With Ladies Expansion)

I think I pretty much covered the dice ground until Kingsburg (2nd edition) comes out
 
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