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Subject: Base Game content compared to Titan add-ons rss

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Michael D. Kelley
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I love the look of this game, the gameplay, basically everything. But money is also tight, and I've been grappling with whether to pledge just at the God level, or to add on the Titan bonus.

So I wanted to compare the two bit by bit, and see how they stack up.

1 - Gods and Titans:
BASE = 13: 12 Gods and 1 Titan (assuming we reach Aphrodite)
TITAN = 7: 3 Gods and 4 Titans
(Titan adds about 50% more, though of course a lot more titans)

2 - Monsters:
BASE = 14
TITAN = 21
(Titan adds 150% more monsters)

3 - Heroes:
BASE = 19
TITAN = 17
(Titan almost doubles the heroes)

4 - Troops (by unit, not figure):
BASE = 16
TITAN = 7
(Titan is just shy of adding 50% more troop types)

5 - Maps (counting each double-sided as ONE):
BASE = 2
TITAN = 5
(Titan adds more than 200% to the maps)

6 - Scenarios:
BASE = 8 (with villagers adding a variant for skirmish)
TITAN = 50! Plus 4 for Conan.
(Titan adds a crazy number of scenarios. But to be fair, 22 of them, almost half, are from the compendium, and another 12 are from Hera)

7 - Terrain:
BASE = 10 columns
TITAN = None.


I am still super tempted to go with a full Titan pledge, but since it adds 300% to the cost without adding so much content, I might regretfully pass.

Although I might add the compendium for a ton of scenarios (the paint and terrain guides don't interest me).

Is there anything I'm not considering?
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Anthony Avelar
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It is hard to get it for $299 more. I feel they would have sold so many more if the total was $299. I just don't get why it is 299 more. I feel with the base box they are losing unless a lot of people are buying addons and that they could justify the $299 because so many more people would pledge. The $299 as an add on kind of sucks, but for those completionist. I still haven't played The Others more than once so I feel the base set will suffice even though I know this will be easier to get to the table. I am going to get the compendium for painting and was also thinking of getting the Hera or Hephaestus.
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Graham
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I think the base game is a steal at its price. I think the Titan pledge is a must if you're interested in Maps, Campaigns, and really expanding the game. Having all those extra options is what that bundle is all about. If you don't care about scenarios as much than the core box is definitely the way to go. I plan on digesting it all. I even went for the RPG.
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Max Maloney
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GameMasterX0 wrote:
I am still super tempted to go with a full Titan pledge, but since it adds 300% to the cost without adding so much content, I might regretfully pass.

Although I might add the compendium for a ton of scenarios (the paint and terrain guides don't interest me).

Is there anything I'm not considering?

While it is true that the Titan addon doesn't carry the same value as the base pledge, that doesn't mean it's not a good value.

Put another way, if you end up wanting the content from the Titan pledge later, you will be really unhappy at the price you have to pay for it. It's not as good a deal as the base pledge, but it is the best deal you're likely to see on that set of content (plus there are KS exclusives in it).

But I wouldn't try to talk you into it. I wildly speculate that 90% of people who order the Titan add-on will not actually play the game enough to make use of the extra stuff.
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Ben Clapperton
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That the God pledge is better value than the Titan bundle should not take away from the fact the Titan bundle is still good value. In terms of making a cost comparison (rather than a value one), the $99 for the God pledge is the core box plus Apollo. When you compare cost, that's what you should be comparing.

Everything else we're now getting with the God pledge is "free" product that the collective amount we've pledged has enabled Monolith/MG to make and give to us as part of that pledge. They could have gone a different way, and done things like tiered freebies across multiple pledge levels (I think Conan might have done this) or paid add-ons as stretch goals, but instead they just have one SG-eligible pledge and made every SG a freebie. This is what is making the God pledge such incredible value. It's also why making the Titan bundle $299 in total instead of +$299 is just not financially viable.

That is cost, now to value. Only you can decide what the value of the add-ons is. With KS exclusives, a discount on RRP, and a further discount on the bundles, then their value is a no-brainer for me.
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Willem Verheij
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I'm concerned too about how much the game might be played. I am sure it will be played, but if it only gets played four times in a year it's not like I'd need the full package.

Personally I plan to get the god pledge + oedipus and the Sphinx because they are exclusives that I really like due to how they play and look, and I also think the scenarios will be a lot of fun.
Added to that I also want the heroes of Troy because I like the included heroes a lot. I know its not exclusive but who knows if it will be available in stores.
Probably will also get the extra board because its an exclusive, even though the other side is useless without the poseidon expansion.

Still in doubt about getting a big board expansion.. would be either hera or Haephestus. Hera has overall nicer and more content, but Haephestus has a nicer exclusive in it. But those scenarios also follow up on the hera expansion.

Might also get more stuff later if it gets in stores, I just dont have the money for it all. Besides, I could always put it on a christmas or birthday list once its in stores.
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Ben Clapperton
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Rhalius wrote:
I'm concerned too about how much the game might be played. I am sure it will be played, but if it only gets played four times in a year it's not like I'd need the full package.



Exactly, and this is what I mean about value being personal. The value of any item is relative to us rather than absolute. If you'll rarely a play a game you don't need everything for it. If you can't afford more than the God pledge you've got ample content just in that. If you want the add-ons and can afford them then they have value to you.
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Willem Verheij
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Indeed. I love what I get in the god pledge, thats a lot. I just like some more scenarios and boards too and well, I just really like the heroes in the heroes of troy package.
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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redben wrote:
Rhalius wrote:
I'm concerned too about how much the game might be played. I am sure it will be played, but if it only gets played four times in a year it's not like I'd need the full package.

Exactly, and this is what I mean about value being personal. The value of any item is relative to us rather than absolute. If you'll rarely a play a game you don't need everything for it. If you can't afford more than the God pledge you've got ample content just in that. If you want the add-ons and can afford them then they have value to you.

For me it's a no brainer to pledge Titan. With similarities with Magic: the Gathering and the Greek theme (we also love Mare Nostrum) it's 100% going to be very popular in my gaming group.

Next to that you can play it 1 vs 1, which is absolutely great as I can play it with my wife and don't have to ask friends to come by in order to be able to play.
You can easily have small tourmaments with so many boards and miniatures to choose from and play on 3 boards simultanously!

So yes, this is the KS I pledged the highest amount for.
Vey much looking forward to the game!!! laugh
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Shelby Babb
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I'll be honest: I doubt I'll ever play the game, but I'm backing for the RPG and minis (to use in RPGs). At that point the value is pretty freaking high, considering giant pre-assembled high detail minis are a small fortune in and of themselves.

(and the beauty of minis for RPG use: mix-n-match. Why yes, I -will- have my greek heroes fighting hordes of zombies from ZBP and Sins from the Others.)
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Itai Rosenbaum
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If money's tight, why go for the full Titan pledge?

Why not just grab a few of the expansions? I'm probably going to get the 3 god expansions and that's it. Out of all the add-ons, they have the most value/money...
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T C
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It will be interesting to see how much more the expansions will be from online retailers relative to how much they cost in the kickstarter. All in is tempting, but there will be a lot of content sitting in boxes unused from game to game and games with that much content tend to be problematic to transport. I'm leaning towards sticking with the base set since inevitably there will be other cool games and kickstarters screaming for my money between now and when this actually arrives.
 
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Maarten Cappaert
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The core pledge and all the core extras are a fantastic deal. I am only CONSIDERING adding individual Kickstarter exclusives, like the Manticore. Most of the big-box expansions have just one Kickstarter exclusive mini in them. This one mini doesn't justify paying three times more, a year (at least) ahead of release.

I'd be more than happy to pick up expansions after I have had a chance to play the core set with the Kickstarter extras. That gives me an idea of how much I enjoy the game and I only miss a handful of Kickstarter exclusives.

Yes, it's tempting right now to go all in. Campaigns like these are designed for you to want everything. Once the campaign is over, and the temptation is gone, it will quickly sink in that you made a great choice by not going all in and only commit to what you can.
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GameMasterX0 wrote:

Is there anything I'm not considering?


Balance between the units. There is already a massive amount of units in the base game but it only has 5 tiers of units (the point costs) and you maybe use 2-5 per game. All units of the same point cost will not be equal - it is an impossible task to balance this amount of units.

So in adding more miniatures from the expansions you basically just replace base game units that are being used or if the add-on unit is inferior will not get picked during the draft phase.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Kelteel wrote:
GameMasterX0 wrote:

Is there anything I'm not considering?

Balance between the units. There is already a massive amount of units in the base game but it only has 5 tiers of units (the point costs) and you maybe use 2-5 per game. All units of the same point cost will not be equal - it is an impossible task to balance this amount of units.

So in adding more miniatures from the expansions you basically just replace base game units that are being used or if the add-on unit is inferior will not get picked during the draft phase.

I think this is very hard to balance, indeed. And there's a number of units for a limited number of roles: troop boosters, ranged attackers, rooting skills, omphalos runners, crowd control, pure damage dealers.
Next to that some unique utility units.

I'm sure that the metagame will prove there's a few very good ones in all the categories - and that some are a bit subpar.

That's why I suggested to have some units in the game that boost a certain type of other units, like M:tG had. Like +1 to all amazones, +1 to serpents and such. That would make themed decks more attractive, even if the individual units won't be the best. MB doesn't have any categories next to the unit types, though.

But we'll see ...
 
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Michael D. Kelley
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Teowulff wrote:
Kelteel wrote:
GameMasterX0 wrote:

Is there anything I'm not considering?

Balance between the units. There is already a massive amount of units in the base game but it only has 5 tiers of units (the point costs) and you maybe use 2-5 per game. All units of the same point cost will not be equal - it is an impossible task to balance this amount of units.

So in adding more miniatures from the expansions you basically just replace base game units that are being used or if the add-on unit is inferior will not get picked during the draft phase.

I think this is very hard to balance, indeed. And there's a number of units for a limited number of roles: troop boosters, ranged attackers, rooting skills, omphalos runners, crowd control, pure damage dealers.
Next to that some unique utility units.

I'm sure that the metagame will prove there's a few very good ones in all the categories - and that some are a bit subpar.

That's why I suggested to have some units in the game that boost a certain type of other units, like M:tG had. Like +1 to all amazones, +1 to serpents and such. That would make themed decks more attractive, even if the individual units won't be the best. MB doesn't have any categories next to the unit types, though.

But we'll see ...


With the drafting, it'd be so easy for your opponent to steal the amazon or whatever you need for your theme deck that I don't think the game needs this type of synergy.

With combos based mainly on the overall type (like the 3 witches working with monsters, or leaders working with troops) we have some good synergy that is generic enough that your opponent can't ruin it with a single draft pick.
 
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Paul Chamberland
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vekoma wrote:
The core pledge and all the core extras are a fantastic deal. I am only CONSIDERING adding individual Kickstarter exclusives, like the Manticore. Most of the big-box expansions have just one Kickstarter exclusive mini in them. This one mini doesn't justify paying three times more, a year (at least) ahead of release.

I'd be more than happy to pick up expansions after I have had a chance to play the core set with the Kickstarter extras. That gives me an idea of how much I enjoy the game and I only miss a handful of Kickstarter exclusives.

Yes, it's tempting right now to go all in. Campaigns like these are designed for you to want everything. Once the campaign is over, and the temptation is gone, it will quickly sink in that you made a great choice by not going all in and only commit to what you can.

The gamer all-in is a very good deal it you want everything. Since Asmodee is distributing the game the OLGSs will only have a 15% discount. The all in is about a 35% discount plus the added exclusives.

Of course, the question is do you really need everything for the game.
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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GameMasterX0 wrote:
With the drafting, it'd be so easy for your opponent to steal the amazon or whatever you need for your theme deck that I don't think the game needs this type of synergy.

Not sure about that. Remember that you also screw your own tactics if you "counter-draft". You only have 12 points - so picking a 3-pointer that doens't fit your strategy at all just because your opponent has synergy .. I don't think it will happen that often. You'd rather pick the 3-pointer that perfectly fits your tactics, I would say. Especially if there's 40 of each unit type to choose from.
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Justin Colm
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It is the same with any of these big miniatures board game Kickstarters: the base game level pledge is usually a tremendous deal. If you want to start getting add-ons or going 'all-in' then the value drops dramatically (although still a good saving on buying it all at retail, for sure, assuming the game has any kind of success). Of course, this is how they 'make up' the cost of the tremendous value on the base game pledge: those who buy everything are effectively paying for all the extra stuff the more modest backers are getting.

So you have to decide what sort of backer you want to be: completionist (get it all) or opportunist (snatch up the great deal on the basic pledge). In the past I was the former but now I'm the latter. I did the same with Conan: I went for the King pledge but didn't go for expansions or add-ons (and even the King pledge was lower value than the base game pledge).

It's just the way the system works. The add-ons pay for the stretch goals too.
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Justin R
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The minis look amazing, and the quality of the game generally is just super impressive. But I am afraid that my major temptation here is because I missed out on the Conan KS, and this game just does not look nearly as good as Conan IMO...even though I like the theme here a great deal more. Ultimately, I will pass, but very interested to hear what people think re how often they'll get it to the table.

In my view, the Titan tier is for those for whom this game will be a lifestyle. Too many other great games out there for me to even think about it.
 
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Michael Johnson
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Mandor wrote:
vekoma wrote:
The core pledge and all the core extras are a fantastic deal. I am only CONSIDERING adding individual Kickstarter exclusives, like the Manticore. Most of the big-box expansions have just one Kickstarter exclusive mini in them. This one mini doesn't justify paying three times more, a year (at least) ahead of release.

I'd be more than happy to pick up expansions after I have had a chance to play the core set with the Kickstarter extras. That gives me an idea of how much I enjoy the game and I only miss a handful of Kickstarter exclusives.

Yes, it's tempting right now to go all in. Campaigns like these are designed for you to want everything. Once the campaign is over, and the temptation is gone, it will quickly sink in that you made a great choice by not going all in and only commit to what you can.

The gamer all-in is a very good deal it you want everything. Since Asmodee is distributing the game the OLGSs will only have a 15% discount. The all in is about a 35% discount plus the added exclusives.

Of course, the question is do you really need everything for the game.


I back too many KSers, and I've backed projects that retail at OLGSs for less (sometimes by a decent margin) than the KS prices I pledged at. However, if Conan and the few expansions available for preorder at the major OLGSs are any indication, the prices being offered in this KS are actually slightly cheaper than the OLGS prices.

Now, with that said, shipping will most likely negate the savings, but you'll be getting a handful of exclusive models in the add-on expansions (and everything all at one time), so you can determine if that's worth it. Basically, I just wanted to throw it out there that it doesn't look like you'll be getting anything here cheaper when it hits retail in case anyone was thinking about waiting for that reason.
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Silver Bowen
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Mandor wrote:
The gamer all-in is a very good deal it you want everything. Since Asmodee is distributing the game the OLGSs will only have a 15% discount. The all in is about a 35% discount plus the added exclusives.

Of course, the question is do you really need everything for the game.


Let me restate this in more the way I think about things: The gamer all-in is like preordering any non-ANA game (with freebie exclusives), except you have to pay for the preorder a year or more upfront, and you have to pay shipping.

That probably isn't exactly accurate, of course. Point being, ANA's price controls mean that retail games are a worse deal, not that this is somehow a better deal. If that makes any sense.
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