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The Resistance: Avalon» Forums » Sessions

Subject: [Fail Plays] Played in an organized tournament. Was a joke. rss

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Kirov Ever
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For the juicy highlight of the session, you may skip to Game 4.

Considering this was an organized tournament, I was looking forward to finally sitting in a competitive game of Avalon. It would be different! I kept telling myself it would be an experience.

But what I saw that day could not be unseen. Just a bit of background: I play Avalon with my pals from college who would invite guests to join us. This extended group would then be the main standard with which I compare other players. And the level of play in that organized tournament was pretty shabby.

To start off some of the players were a bit rusty on the rules. But that part was easily taken care of. Sitting among the group were very seasoned boardgamers. Eurogames and all. Regulars. So I know them, have been playing with them. Did not expect questionable play from them, but yet...

All games were 7 players. Roles used were Merlin, Percival, 2 regular good versus Assassin, Morgana, Mordred.

Game 1:
Evil won by assassinating Merlin.
I was on the side of evil. First quest (2p) was won by good, no questions asked. Second quest (3p) was again won by good. But in it there was this guy J - my evil teammate who played success. Alright, nevermind that. He was selected for quest 3 (3p) but this time he failed it. Still ok. When it came to the fourth quest (4p), which required two fails, I saw the team had not enough bad guys in it, so I rejected the team. It was a close vote, 4-3. I saw my teammate had voted yes. If he had voted no, the crown would have then been passed to him. Allowing him to select a team with 2 evil. Anyways I correctly read who Merlin was and guided the assassin to her. Evil won, I won.

Pretty annoyed by J who missed out on the concept of momentum. Evil could win at the end, but still...

Game 2:
Evil won by assassinating Merlin.
I was on the side of good. Regular loyal servant. First quest (2p) was won by good, no questions asked. Call it my good reading skills or whatever, but from the start I could see it in his eyes that L was the assassin. Hard to prove this, but I find that my plays on the side of Good are better than the average players out there because I noticed that I have the knack to read out who are the evil players from the get-go. This led me to carry the game, as I usually do when on the side of Good. I wasn't Merlin but in most of my games as Good I could carry hard enough despite in the role of a Regular loyal servant. Anyways, I was successfully filtered out to be one of the last 2 for the role of Merlin. But unfortunately L the Assassin chose the right Merlin. Who was J, the guy from Game 1. Evil won, I lost.

Pretty annoyed at this point with your performance, J... You were too quiet as a Merlin and that was the signal.

The tournament ended here as there was already an established lead by one of the players. The third game onwards was not scored.

Game 3:
Good won.
I was on the side of evil. First quest (2p) was won by good, no questions asked. My evil teammate cost us Evil the game because in Quest 4 which needed two fails, she played the wrong card. We then failed to guest correctly Merlin. She wasn't a bad player per se, had a good aura about her and was hard to read. As an Evil player she was even convincing as a Good girl. She just played the wrong card on the critical turn. Playing right could have led to 2-2 and Quest 5.

Players review:
I was playing with these 6 people and I'd say they were decent, except J. He cost me two games as my teammate. One of which, game 1, was won only because I guided the Assassin to the right Merlin. My female teammate in game 3 was ok like the rest, except for her blunder at Quest 4. It was a huge blow still because of the standard of play expected for competitive Avalon. It is the low profile players which are the best. Not too quiet to be always suspected, not too hard to read as to make fellow Good allies mistrust them. They somehow tread on a fine line. Nevertheless among the best players, the quiet ones come up slightly better skilled than the noisy ones.

Playstyle review:
Unlike my college playing group, none of them come out full guns blazing claiming good/evil. I guess it takes a certain level of doubt in order to gain trust. Someone who consistently lies successfully would be mistrusted on subsequent rounds so it works against them and their allies in the long run. Never blatantly lie and be caught.

Game 4:
Only one person returned and it was the 2 of us with new players. Still 7 p. Same roles. A bunch of kids plus one older guy who could be my age joined us and it was the most pathetic Avalon game I have ever sat in. Two of the evil were extremely lousy and were read out from the get-go by the rest of us 5. They were too quiet, did not defend themselves, written off as Evil.

Now comes the part. Of us 5 remaining, this was how we formed our team:

The older guy was the leader and started recruiting trustworthy teammates. We established across the table that both of us, the older guy and myself, were good. We turned out to be both Regular loyal servants. I saw some similarity of myself in him in that we could read. And carry games solely on reading, secondarily by information.

The noisy Percival only knew Merlin and Morgana so throughout the game he was either hindering us both leaders, or helping us. The problem is the 4th guy (Morgana) and the problematic 5th guy (Merlin) who we have to recruit. I will get to Merlin's problems.

When I say 4th, 5th, here I meant the "trust hierarchy", who gets recruited into Good as the 4th member, 5th member. I do not refer to the seating order.

Game started with a few rejected teams. Quest 1 was passed, no questions asked. Quest 2 contained Percival, Older Guy, one of the obvious Evil. It passed. Quest 3 was chosen by Older Guy. We had trust. Older Guy, obvious Evil, me. I replaced Percival. Quest 3 failed. We knew it was coming but then Older Guy and I had to choose between Percival and obvious Evil. Now we can trust Percival.

At this point 3 of us were obvious good, so what could go wrong? Quest 4 required 2 fails. I knew amongst us 5 there was only one evil. We easily cleared Quest 4 (2 fails), with us three and the 4th guy (Morgana), with no failure cards. We were to choose between 4th guy and 5th guy. Morgana was my Evil teammate for game 3 and I already knew his playstyle. A very convincing Evil who could appear good and participate in discussions. We could have won at this point had it not for Merlin's problems. The 5th kid here was an eccentric fellow who spoke in riddles.

The problem was that in Quest 5, when we needed a perfect 4 player team of Good, he did not fight to be on our team and was pretty comfortable to have Morgana go with us. OMG. Pause now.

Picture this.

Now read on.

Older Guy had been choosing between 4th guy (Morgana) and 5th kid (Merlin) but for Quest 4 I convinced all good that there was just one potential Evil in the team and we could adjourn our discussion to Quest 5. Now we are in Quest 5 and the discussion resumed.

I REMINDED every Good player out there that we needed a perfect team for Quest 5 and if they were not IN IT, they have to be VEHEMENT. Merlin was fumbling, the obvious Evils quiet still. Morgana was discussing with us, and I knew he was Evil. If there was only Older Guy and me in Good we would have won. But Good also included Percival and Merlin which complicated things.

Older Guy was choosing the team for Quest 5. When the shield was passed to Morgana, 5th kid (Merlin) spoke up and said, "Now, that's not a good choice here." And when we Big 3 (Older guy, me, Percival) discussed amongst ourselves and asked him to elaborate, he said, "I think that's not a good choice at this moment. Pause now.

I mean, what do you mean to tell us? You are Merlin and saw Morgana's thumb so why now make us trust you? And he said it in a flat tone. Could be read as guilty. Not straightforward. Like a scientist presenting his findings in a soft voice. There is no "at this moment", there is no "now", this is only never, we are in Quest 5 mode. Tell us if you are good or not. Or never. Older Guy wanted to pick 5th kid (Merlin). I reasoned that it must be the normal way he speaks and that we could indeed trust him. After discussions Older Guy decided to go with the 5th guy. Percival was adamant though. I told every Good out there to agree with this team and cooperate.

BAM. Percival voted no to the quest. Strangely Older Guy voted no too. They must be trying to fish out some votes from the Evils. We rejected every team till the crown passed across the table from Older Guy to me. They made me put Morgana on the team.

Good game.

Post-game discussion: Percival failed us by being so against Merlin. Percival skewed out votes and warped the team fabric. Morgana did not really convinced us as I could suss out he was evil. He only convinced himself that he played a good Morgana. Whatever.

Mechanics review:
Merlin knew 2 out of 3 evil. Amongst the 5 there is Mordred. This is not unlike my plays as a Regular loyal servant as I could usually read 2 Evils. I think Merlin should play as a Regular, if Mordred is in game. Same thing the 5th guy could have announced he was a Regular. He was afraid of being obviously Merlin if he spoke up. He chided the child Merlin for misleading us.
Percival knew 2 people but this information is useless if Morgana is convincing.
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M M
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Merlin's #1 job is to not lose Percival. There are some people who play Merlin who will vote to approve teams with evil, "so as not to be too obvious." Then what happens sometimes is they vote to approve a team with Morgana. After all, they're only approving a team with 1 bad, they don't specifically know Morgana. If you're Percival, and the data you have is that the person who might be Merlin is approving someone who Merlin should know is evil, bam. You've picked your side. In short, lots of time bad Percival play is actually bad Merlin play.

I'm not sure what you need for Merlin to say. Of course he's going to say he's good. Everyone are going to say they're good. You telling everyone that they had to be VEHEMENT is how you choose to play the game. Frankly lots of times it just makes it noisier. Not going to fault someone for not yelling and screaming.

If you're making the 5th team on the 5th mission, no one can force you. It's your decision. I wouldn't blame everyone else.
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Alejandro Magno
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Quote:
If you're making the 5th team on the 5th mission, no one can force you. It's your decision. I wouldn't blame everyone else.

That is the point of being the leader... You choose the team, people can't make you choose what you do not want to, so OP is the one to blame for the loss.
 
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mfl134
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cyampagn wrote:

Considering this was an organized tournament, I was looking forward to finally sitting in a competitive game of Avalon. It would be different! I kept telling myself it would be an experience.


If you are looking for an experience and have lots of free time to be on bgg, https://www.boardgamegeek.com/forum/389152/resistance/play-f...

different from in person, but better in a lot of ways.

edit: and if you already play there, I haven't been around in a while, and disregard
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John
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Stopping scoring a tournament after two rounds seems a bit too quick - I think you need more games than that to have any idea.

Mat628 wrote:
I'm not sure what you need for Merlin to say. Of course he's going to say he's good. Everyone are going to say they're good.

Yes, most of the time I don't bother claiming to be good because there isn't much point. One player I've occasionally played with has said more than once "of course we're all good..."

Mat628 wrote:
If you're making the 5th team on the 5th mission, no one can force you. It's your decision. I wouldn't blame everyone else.

Yes - I might ask for opinions, but it's my decision.

cyampagn wrote:
We rejected every team till the crown passed across the table from Older Guy to me.

I read this and though it seemed perfectly reasonable - if we are in this situation where two players who are trusted get proposals on the last team and one of them gets the 5th proposal this is usually what happens. Typically the all the discussion happens during the first trusted player's proposal, it often gets voted down, the rest of the proposals get voted down fairly quickly and the 5th proposal will often be the same team suggested by the first trusted player (though not always).
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Max DuBoff
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Thanks for the AAR! Out of curiosity, who sponsored the tournament?


cyampagn wrote:
Game started with a few rejected teams. Quest 1 was passed, no questions asked. Quest 2 contained Percival, Older Guy, one of the obvious Evil. It passed. Quest 3 was chosen by Older Guy. We had trust. Older Guy, obvious Evil, me. I replaced Percival. Quest 3 failed. We knew it was coming but then Older Guy and I had to choose between Percival and obvious Evil. Now we can trust Percival.

At this point 3 of us were obvious good, so what could go wrong? Quest 4 required 2 fails. I knew amongst us 5 there was only one evil. We easily cleared Quest 4 (2 fails), with us three and the 4th guy (Morgana), with no failure cards.
(emphasis mine)

Why did the game go to M5 of there had already been 3 passed missions?
 
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Nico
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cyampagn wrote:
Morgana was discussing with us, and I knew he was Evil.

cyampagn wrote:
We rejected every team till the crown passed across the table from Older Guy to me. They made me put Morgana on the team.
Good game.


Mh, maybe I misunderstood something, but why did you include Morgana in the last the which had to be accepted although you know who Morgana was?
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Kirov Ever
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Waterd wrote:
Quote:
If you're making the 5th team on the 5th mission, no one can force you. It's your decision. I wouldn't blame everyone else.

That is the point of being the leader... You choose the team, people can't make you choose what you do not want to, so OP is the one to blame for the loss.


But then you will just be downvoted. You don't understand the situation. A leader doesn't just choose what he wants. He also wants the team to be accepted. Sometimes discussions are made and compromises are made. The game is partially about group-think. I literally had Older Guy and Percival yelling with certainty that we as a group should pick Morgana. After the game I asked them what would they have done if I stubbornly and correctly went with Merlin instead. It's obvious: because it was the last of the 5 rejected teams anything I picked would have to be approved. Add on: we ruled that 5 rejected teams ended the game, not the round. But back to my point about group-think is that imo democracy has to pay. If the group-think picked Morgana I would rather we lose so we learn. Than face the shame of picking Merlin kid, and he did not turn out to be Merlin, 50-50 Schroedinger screw me up and over, and the shame that I went against democracy and the blame became 100% mine.

MD1616 wrote:


cyampagn wrote:
Game started with a few rejected teams. Quest 1 was passed, no questions asked. Quest 2 contained Percival, Older Guy, one of the obvious Evil. It passed. Quest 3 was chosen by Older Guy. We had trust. Older Guy, obvious Evil, me. I replaced Percival. Quest 3 failed. We knew it was coming but then Older Guy and I had to choose between Percival and obvious Evil. Now we can trust Percival.

At this point 3 of us were obvious good, so what could go wrong? Quest 4 required 2 fails. I knew amongst us 5 there was only one evil. We easily cleared Quest 4 (2 fails), with us three and the 4th guy (Morgana), with no failure cards.
(emphasis mine)

Why did the game go to M5 of there had already been 3 passed missions?


Sorry Quest 2 and Quest 3 both failed. Both had the obvious Evil guy in it.

ZdadrDeM wrote:
cyampagn wrote:
Morgana was discussing with us, and I knew he was Evil.

cyampagn wrote:
We rejected every team till the crown passed across the table from Older Guy to me. They made me put Morgana on the team.
Good game.


Mh, maybe I misunderstood something, but why did you include Morgana in the last the which had to be accepted although you know who Morgana was?


It was still iffy. Everything is. I am the type of player who makes decisions with the statistical benefit of doubt rather than 100% certainty. I know every of my hunches could be wrong. I should say I am more than 50% certain Morgana was Morgana.
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