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Subject: Mineral Doubler seem too easy to abuse? rss

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Steven Tu
South Africa
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It feels like there's too much power on one ability that dictates the entire flow of the game. I'm kinda considering a nerf in houseruling - the doubling action gets you half the targeted token, rounded up.

What do you think?

Impact to the rest of the game:
1. Makes it easier to get variety bonus
2. Devalues cards with doubler (which is intended)
3. ???
 
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Nisses Clan Skryre
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Also makes gaining currency slower, so no big jumps in currency possible.

For a runaway leader that's fine, but for reasons of catchup it could make a big difference.

I do agree it feels like a "must-have" ability though.
 
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Sias Mey
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The doubler is important, but im pretty sure I have won a game or two without huge focus on it.

It does however open up big combo buy turns, which otherwise are very difficult.

Also, I dont think you will often be able to get to lvl 4 in a deck without some big doubles.

Is your problem that efficient doubleing seems to be the "golden path" to victory?

Also important to note that lvl 4 in a deck is usually worse than lvl 3, just many more points.
 
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Steven Tu
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Yeah it flattens the possible options of play, like you basically have to try and get a big gem, and put it not on the doubler guy, and then go to town trying to get the doubler guy. It's that or nothing, everything else is to support that.

Doesn't matter if level 4 is worse, by the time you buy the level 4 the game is usually over. You're only getting it for points.
 
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Mick Whyte
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That's not entirely true, the game is about combos not just doubling 1 gem. You might set of a chain, get an extra action, use it to drill down to set off the doubler to get a some bombs to fill the have 3 bombs achievment. I've beaten my opponent because they were focusing to much on grabbing level 4's with big gems, mean while I grabbed a tonne of minor achievements.

I've also grabbed a level 4 at only 2nd depth and used it very effectively. There is a lot to be said for specifically trying different strategies Viticulture Essential Edition taught me that.
 
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Mick_whyte wrote:
That's not entirely true, the game is about combos not just doubling 1 gem.


Agreed. The doubler is important, but realistically you're only going to get to use him 2, maybe 3 times in the entire game.

If you're focusing on "get huge gem, buy doubler guy, buy him again to copy the gem again" to the exclusion of everything else, you may not be making optimal moves in the meantime, and you're likely missing smaller opportunities here and there that add up, like the minor achievements, and even the "buy 2 each from 3 different pilot stacks" major achievement.

I'd say games in our house are won or lost on the achievements actually, and the point spread has been 30+ points if one of the players isn't paying attention.
 
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Steven Tu
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Look, I'm not saying that you can win ONLY by doing the doubler. The doubler also enables hitting the achievements easier anyway, so that's pretty much a moot point to bring up. And also achievements are always variable too, so again, moot.

Put it this way: Is it feasible to win to play without employing the doublers, vs a player who employs the doublers? I'd say it's always going to favour the player who focuses on doubling. And thus, it's a winning strategy. Thus, there are fewer paths to victory than there could be.
 
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Sias Mey
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This is kinda tricky.

but, due to the major achievements, its again kinda moot. If all the major achievements contain your doubler character, it would be silly to try to ignore it.

If there are 2 that dont contain the doubler, then ignoring it, or just grabbing the first later for a combo is probably the better play. If however in that case another player focuses on getting them, they will almost certainly do worse. But ... why would you make that choice.

The paths to victory are not defined so much by the abilities on cards as it is by the colours on those cards and how they relate to the major achievements and by how often you can claim minor achievements.

The doubler is also badly nerfed by not carying over change. It means that an efficient use of it is usually trying to get a resource with half of a pilot stacks cost, and then working on the doubler.

The doubler is very powerfull, but it is also the action that takes the most planning and the most setup in order to reach that power. So ... meh, im fine with it.

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ChioZA wrote:
This is kinda tricky.

but, due to the major achievements, its again kinda moot. If all the major achievements contain your doubler character, it would be silly to try to ignore it.

If there are 2 that dont contain the doubler, then ignoring it, or just grabbing the first later for a combo is probably the better play. If however in that case another player focuses on getting them, they will almost certainly do worse. But ... why would you make that choice.

The paths to victory are not defined so much by the abilities on cards as it is by the colours on those cards and how they relate to the major achievements and by how often you can claim minor achievements.

The doubler is also badly nerfed by not carying over change. It means that an efficient use of it is usually trying to get a resource with half of a pilot stacks cost, and then working on the doubler.

The doubler is very powerfull, but it is also the action that takes the most planning and the most setup in order to reach that power. So ... meh, im fine with it.



Unless the players are all somewhat new or bad at the game, a person who completely ignores the doubler will lose. The same can not be said for the other three cards. You could ignore the card to hand power and your score wouldn't suffer for it. When something becomes so essentially that it MUST be done, it sorta limits the freedom of choice and becomes, by definition, over powered.

The doubler is not nerfed by the inability to overproduce, since it's primarily used on higher value cards.
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