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Bios: Genesis» Forums » Rules

Subject: In the solo game, does an atrophied AI endosymbiont receive compensation? rss

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Chris in Kansai
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Yay or nay?
 
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Franz Derphausen
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What for? The AI does not have a catalyst pool.
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Chris in Kansai
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Per H5:

• Gene Transfer Agents.37 A Parasite player can donate Catalysts to the tableau pool of its Host player at any time.

I know the AI parasite doesn't start with any catalysts, but there's no mention in the rules (that I can find) that forbids it receiving compensation. That catalyst would then be available to the next host the parasite infects.
 
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Simon Skov
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Even so, a parasite can donate catalysts to its hosts, but I do not see why they would. If it turns out AI parasites do recive compensation, I would suppose them to only be used when the parasite makes its own purchase, and even then only if the host has no catalysts. They're not there to help you.
 
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Chris in Kansai
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Well, parasites can never make their own purchases - they must always use the host's catalysts.

In the solo game rules, the AI's role as a parasite is clearly delineated (single biont, purchase priorities and so on), but compensation for atrophy (which the AI parasite will suffer) as received by player parasite bionts isn't mentioned.

I'm not particularly arguing it should be, (other than the fewer rules exceptions the better) but if compensation were to happen it raised an interesting situation. I had a microorganism which could be parasitised by either my other player color or an AI parasite which had a useful catalyst (A parasite can only ever have one catalyst from compensation, as as soon as it parasitises another organism, that catalyst goes to the new host).

Player order favored my other color, but I had a decision to make as to whether allowing the AI biont to parasitise my organism, giving me that useful catalyst, outweighed the downsides of a hostile parasite.

In a biological system, if a parasite is producing something useful to the host (a step towards symbiosis) there's no element of choice as to whether the host gets it or not - the parasite has no agency. For something like a catalyst, as soon as it exits the parasite (which it inevitably will) the host has use of it.
 
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Albert Carreras Salvadó
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Chrysm wrote:
as soon as it parasitises another organism, that catalyst goes to the new host


Giving catalysts is voluntary and in most of my games the parasite never gives them. Why should the AI do it?
 
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Chris in Kansai
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In a game with other players, a catalyst pool is generated by all bionts of one color, irrespective of their function. There isn't any account taken of how a particular catalyst was generated.

In the case of an AI parasite there are no other bionts so one and only one catalyst can be generated through compensation, and as I mentioned previously, in a biological system the host gets what the parasite makes, no choice.

I guess when learning a game I like certain rules and procedures to become second nature, for example "biont dies, receive compensation". In this case the procedure is different and it seems to be "just because", which feels ... inelegant.
 
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Rich James
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Chrysm wrote:
I had a microorganism which could be parasitised by either my other player color or an AI parasite which had a useful catalyst

I agree the solitaire rules do not say what to do with a parasite catalyst, if it is awarded as compensation. I treat the game as me vs two AI opponents (not parasites). Their parasites come into play when they attach to my organisms. I have played it that AI bionts are not compensated.

However, if I wanted to award catalysts as compensation for the AI bionts, then I would have the AI player use those catalysts only if they would help it buy a useful mutation.
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(A parasite can only ever have one catalyst from compensation, as as soon as it parasitises another organism, that catalyst goes to the new host).

Is this a rule? Can you point to where it is stated?
 
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Chris Clarke
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As a side note, just to be clear in the RAW: do we all agree that in a multiplayer game, parasite Darwin Roll Biosynthesis catalysts go to the host, but compensation biosynthesis as defined by B4 always goes to the owner?

G2. BIOSYNTHESIS
Each ‘1’ rolled is a protein dice. For each protein dice rolled in a Microorganism’s Darwin Roll, add a number of Catalysts equal to the number of red Chromosomes (Metabolism) it has. For each triple you roll, additionally add one Catalyst. All Catalysts are added to the tableau pool your Organism resides in.


B4. BIONT LIMITS
Whenever one of your Bionts is returned to your pool as a result of Manna death (F2), biont cull (E2), Atrophy, or Extinction, add one Catalyst of your color to your pool as compensation.
 
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Chris Clarke
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As to the OP, I have been playing that the AI does have a Catalyst pool and receives compensation as per B4. I make the AI make purchases with its host's catalysts first, and it's own as a last resort. Not quite what a real player would do.
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Chris in Kansai
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arjisme wrote:

Is this a rule? Can you point to where it is stated?


No, it's not in the RAW. All that's stated about AI catalysts is that they don't start with any. I couldn't understand why an AI biont wouldn't receive compensation, but I also didn't want to be choosing for the AI as to where a catalyst would go. In everything else, AI actions are scripted so following that logic any AI catalyst would automatically go to the host.

I would point out that Phil Eklund has thumbed a post in this thread that states AIs have no catalyst pool so that's the intention I presume. I'm just picking at it because it bugs me.


 
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Chris in Kansai
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aram12 wrote:
As a side note, just to be clear in the RAW: do we all agree that in a multiplayer game, parasite Darwin Roll Biosynthesis catalysts go to the host, but compensation biosynthesis as defined by B4 always goes to the owner?

G2. BIOSYNTHESIS
Each ‘1’ rolled is a protein dice. For each protein dice rolled in a Microorganism’s Darwin Roll, add a number of Catalysts equal to the number of red Chromosomes (Metabolism) it has. For each triple you roll, additionally add one Catalyst. All Catalysts are added to the tableau pool your Organism resides in.


B4. BIONT LIMITS
Whenever one of your Bionts is returned to your pool as a result of Manna death (F2), biont cull (E2), Atrophy, or Extinction, add one Catalyst of your color to your pool as compensation.


Agreed as per the living rules (I do feel a "but... but..." coming on though). I'm starting to appreciate that this game is so ambitious in what it's trying to model that inevitably there are places where things get a little odd in a good game vs accurate simulation kind of way.
 
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