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Subject: Palatinate rss

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Jeffery Hunt
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Would you good people explain exactly how this action works, perhaps with an example? not entirely sure that we used it correctly.
 
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Christy Love
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Wow. I've never played the Invasion (co-op) module, so I was curious about this as well. When I first read it, I thought it was a 'take that' action which doesn't coincide with a cooperative game.

Quote:
Palatinate (page 8 of Invasion):
You can use an action that another player has activated. That other player must return the followers used for activation to their bag as if they used the action (which they do not).

A place is considered activated as soon as all of its action spaces have a follower. (page 15 of base game rules).

I interpret this as: Once another player has placed all necessary followers in an action place, you can use the palatine to steal/utilize that ability on their board. They then have to return the followers in that action place back to their bag, which means they can no longer use that action.

This could be helpful in a co-op game as they may have drawn the followers to complete an action for which you want to do instead.
 
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Peter Mulholland
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Yep you've got it spot on.

I activate my Palitante action using any two followers (which go back to my bag) and it allows me to resolve any action from another player (including buildings). They place the followers in their bag, and I get the benefit.

While it isn't used really regularly (in my games at least), when it is used it's a life saver.

Example from last night:

We had a three player game, so to get all the towers built two of us built 3, the third built 4. He was able to utilise our move or build actions to help get this done.

We also used it on the move action a couple of times to help pickup extra goods. I find it's more of a late game thing when you have lots of Meeples, and potentially spare actions if you've completed your personal goal and don't have money/goods/knights to add.
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David Taranto
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I've also noticed that Palatinate requires two tokens, while some actions require three in order to activate. If someone needs to just eke out ONE MORE ACTION but they're short a token in the market (because, perhaps, another player's objective required getting to the end of the Knight track and leaving the other players with more restricted markets) Palatinate can get the job done. In that same sort of situation, if Technology tiles just aren't that feasible for some reason, this could also allow another player to use, say, the Library, or travel, as has already been mentioned.

It still seems woefully inefficient, all things considered, but I've also only played Invasion once and we lost and that's what I was able to glean from it.

Edit: ONE MORE THING!
It could definitely solve/alleviate a really bad tile draw (i.e. when you draw all four of your traders and somehow didn't draw ANY of your five monks). Again, inefficient, but can definitely save the day there.
 
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Peter Mulholland
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the_windcaster wrote:
It still seems woefully inefficient, all things considered, but I've also only played Invasion once and we lost and that's what I was able to glean from it.


Yep it is very inefficient as you are using 4-5 meeples as a group to do an action, rather than 2-3. However sometimes its the only way to complete an essentially action, or allow one player to do an action twice, and sometimes you have to do that to win.

As I said it's not something that happens a lot, or even every game, but it is very useful.
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mfl134
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Can your first technology tile be placed on the Palatinate action?

Since your first tech tile must be placed on a farmer space, I'd would think it would be legal to place here since that action can be performed by a farmer.

(I'd doubt that you would want to do it, but I could see it coming up.)
 
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Peter Mulholland
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mfl134 wrote:
Can your first technology tile be placed on the Palatinate action?

Since your first tech tile must be placed on a farmer space, I'd would think it would be legal to place here since that action can be performed by a farmer.

(I'd doubt that you would want to do it, but I could see it coming up.)


Hmm interesting. Not sure on that one. I'd probably rule no because it has to go specifically on a farmer space. But you could just as easily rule it the other way.
 
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Travis Williams
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My interpretation this rule is different. Example. Its player 1 turn again he want to use the castle action but can not. Play 3 has not used the castle action answer has the apropiate workers in the market. Player 1 uses Palatinate forcing player 3 to discard a boatman and a craftsman back into the bag. Player 1 now gets a farmer.
 
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Peter Mulholland
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Alphaborn wrote:
My interpretation this rule is different. Example. Its player 1 turn again he want to use the castle action but can not. Play 3 has not used the castle action answer has the apropiate workers in the market. Player 1 uses Palatinate forcing player 3 to discard a boatman and a craftsman back into the bag. Player 1 now gets a farmer.


This is incorrect.

Player one has to place any two followers in the Palatinate to activate it.

Player two has to of placed followers in the action player one wants to use during Phase 2. They cannot come from Player 2s market. Player one returns his followers to the bag from the Platinate action. Player returns his followers to the bag from the action player one is going to do. Player one then completes the action.



Also I think you mean knight not farmer if you are talking about the Castle action.
 
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Richard Bissell
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My group was very confused by how the Palatinate worked.

We thought that it allowed you to duplicate an action of someone that came before you on the turn order as people coming later have not locked in their actions yet and once a person has duplicated that person's actions, they have to then remove their pieces from the board which in essence would prevent say person 3 from activating that same power yet again that round.

Is there a good video of this space in action as it felt like a head scratcher to my group trying to figure out how to use it.

So please help me (and my group). I have read the above examples but I am still not sure I have understood it correctly.




 
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Peter Mulholland
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TARDIS2008 wrote:
My group was very confused by how the Palatinate worked.

We thought that it allowed you to duplicate an action of someone that came before you on the turn order as people coming later have not locked in their actions yet and once a person has duplicated that person's actions, they have to then remove their pieces from the board which in essence would prevent say person 3 from activating that same power yet again that round.

Is there a good video of this space in action as it felt like a head scratcher to my group trying to figure out how to use it.

So please help me (and my group). I have read the above exampled but I am still not sure I have understood it correctly.






I don't know of any videos, I guess I could quickly make one but it'll just be going over the same thing again (maybe you're a visual learner?). I'll try to make it as clear as possible using the same terminology as the rulebook, because it's actually very straightforward.

Quote:
During Phase 4: Planning (when you are moving your Character Tiles from your Market onto Places) Player A assigns two Followers to the Palatinate Place (these Followers can be any type; two of the same or mixed - just any two Followers).

During Phase 5: Actions (when you are carrying out the actions from your Places) Player A can activate the Palatinate Place in the usual way (by removing the two Followers and returning them to your bag). This allows Player A to resolve a Place on any other players board, as long as it has the correct Followers in. Player A gets the benefit of the Place, the player whom it belongs to removes the Followers and returns them to their bag. Player A may do this at any point in the round on their turn


Quote:
Example

Round 5, Phase 4

Player A discusses with Player B that he needs to do the Ship action this round, but does not have the correct Followers. Player B does have the appropriate Followers and does not need to use them this round so she places them on the Ship Place. Player A places any two Followers onto the Palatinate Place.

Round 5, Phase 5
A few actions into the round it is Player A's turn. He chooses to do the Palatinate action. He announces this to the other players, and removes the two Followers from the Place and returns them to his bag. Player B removes her Followers from the Ship Place and returns them to her bag. Player A then resolves the Ship action.

The round continues as normal.


This can be done to utilise 1 Place on any other players board, or a building which they have built.

The important things to remember are:

- The player doing the Palatinate action has to put Followers on it

AND

- The player who's action they want to use must put Followers on it

- All Workers are returned to respective players bags

- The player who activated the Palatinate gets any/all benefits from the action they choose.



I hope that has made it nice and clear, if it came across patronising I didn't intend it that way - just trying to be as clear and simple as possible. If you have any more questions just ask.
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Peter Mulholland
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TARDIS2008 wrote:
My group was very confused by how the Palatinate worked.

We thought that it allowed you to duplicate an action of someone that came before you on the turn order as people coming later have not locked in their actions yet and once a person has duplicated that person's actions, they have to then remove their pieces from the board which in essence would prevent say person 3 from activating that same power yet again that round.

Is there a good video of this space in action as it felt like a head scratcher to my group trying to figure out how to use it.

So please help me (and my group). I have read the above examples but I am still not sure I have understood it correctly.


Colour and emphasis mine

Hi Rick,

Having just read your reply again I just want to make sure you're playing correctly as it sounds like it might be a bit off with regards to the highlighted sentence (or I'm reading it wrong).

No one should be doing any actions until all players have locked their actions in.

So:

Phase 3 (Followers): Everyone draws an appropriate number of Followers from their bag and places them in their Market (Simultaneous)

Phase 4 (Planning): Everyone moves their Followers from their Market out to appropriate Place spaces (Simultaneous)

After Phase 4 we generally go round starting from the start player to check everyone is happy with their placement; giving them one last chance to move stuff after having looked at everyones boards. This is less important in Invasion as you are working together so there should be lots of discussion anyway, but is incredibly important in any competitive game as a lot depends on when you do your actions as they start to get limited

Phase 5 (Actions): Beginning with the start player go round the table clockwise each player completely resolving one of their actions or passing. Once you have passed you are out of that round. This continues until everyone has passed (this means in most rounds players will be doing different amounts of actions).

You are correct when you say that the player removes their Followers from the board. This means either that Player can do their own action or ONE other player can do it via the Palatinate action. This is why Palatinate isn't used very often (as its not an efficient use of Followers), but can save the game when its needed.

The only way an action can be used more than once per round is by using the Well Place tile, or the last Follower bonus on the Court of Lay Assessors on the new Beneficial Deeds board from the Trade & Intrigue expansion
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Richard Bissell
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PeterM2158 wrote:
TARDIS2008 wrote:
My group was very confused by how the Palatinate worked.

We thought that it allowed you to duplicate an action of someone that came before you on the turn order as people coming later have not locked in their actions yet and once a person has duplicated that person's actions, they have to then remove their pieces from the board which in essence would prevent say person 3 from activating that same power yet again that round.

Is there a good video of this space in action as it felt like a head scratcher to my group trying to figure out how to use it.

So please help me (and my group). I have read the above examples but I am still not sure I have understood it correctly.


Colour and emphasis mine

Hi Rick,

Having just read your reply again I just want to make sure you're playing correctly as it sounds like it might be a bit off with regards to the highlighted sentence (or I'm reading it wrong).

No one should be doing any actions until all players have locked their actions in.

So:

Phase 3 (Followers): Everyone draws an appropriate number of Followers from their bag and places them in their Market (Simultaneous)

Phase 4 (Planning): Everyone moves their Followers from their Market out to appropriate Place spaces (Simultaneous)

After Phase 4 we generally go round starting from the start player to check everyone is happy with their placement; giving them one last chance to move stuff after having looked at everyones boards. This is less important in Invasion as you are working together so there should be lots of discussion anyway, but is incredibly important in any competitive game as a lot depends on when you do your actions as they start to get limited

Phase 5 (Actions): Beginning with the start player go round the table clockwise each player completely resolving one of their actions or passing. Once you have passed you are out of that round. This continues until everyone has passed (this means in most rounds players will be doing different amounts of actions).

You are correct when you say that the player removes their Followers from the board. This means either that Player can do their own action or ONE other player can do it via the Palatinate action. This is why Palatinate isn't used very often (as its not an efficient use of Followers), but can save the game when its needed.

The only way an action can be used more than once per round is by using the Well Place tile, or the last Follower bonus on the Court of Lay Assessors on the new Beneficial Deeds board from the Trade & Intrigue expansion



Thank you for your response. Your example makes perfect sense to me. I really appreciate you taking the time to walk me through it. And yes, I think we were slightly off on another rule too that you highlighted above and so now I am clear(er) on both of those actions/rules.



 
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Peter Mulholland
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TARDIS2008 wrote:
PeterM2158 wrote:
TARDIS2008 wrote:
My group was very confused by how the Palatinate worked.

We thought that it allowed you to duplicate an action of someone that came before you on the turn order as people coming later have not locked in their actions yet and once a person has duplicated that person's actions, they have to then remove their pieces from the board which in essence would prevent say person 3 from activating that same power yet again that round.

Is there a good video of this space in action as it felt like a head scratcher to my group trying to figure out how to use it.

So please help me (and my group). I have read the above examples but I am still not sure I have understood it correctly.


Colour and emphasis mine

Hi Rick,

Having just read your reply again I just want to make sure you're playing correctly as it sounds like it might be a bit off with regards to the highlighted sentence (or I'm reading it wrong).

No one should be doing any actions until all players have locked their actions in.

So:

Phase 3 (Followers): Everyone draws an appropriate number of Followers from their bag and places them in their Market (Simultaneous)

Phase 4 (Planning): Everyone moves their Followers from their Market out to appropriate Place spaces (Simultaneous)

After Phase 4 we generally go round starting from the start player to check everyone is happy with their placement; giving them one last chance to move stuff after having looked at everyones boards. This is less important in Invasion as you are working together so there should be lots of discussion anyway, but is incredibly important in any competitive game as a lot depends on when you do your actions as they start to get limited

Phase 5 (Actions): Beginning with the start player go round the table clockwise each player completely resolving one of their actions or passing. Once you have passed you are out of that round. This continues until everyone has passed (this means in most rounds players will be doing different amounts of actions).

You are correct when you say that the player removes their Followers from the board. This means either that Player can do their own action or ONE other player can do it via the Palatinate action. This is why Palatinate isn't used very often (as its not an efficient use of Followers), but can save the game when its needed.

The only way an action can be used more than once per round is by using the Well Place tile, or the last Follower bonus on the Court of Lay Assessors on the new Beneficial Deeds board from the Trade & Intrigue expansion



Thank you for your response. Your example makes perfect sense to me. I really appreciate you taking the time to walk me through it. And yes, I think we were slightly off on another rule too that you highlighted above and so now I am clear(er) on both of those actions/rules.





Not a problem at all, glad it was clear enough to make sense. Orleans is my favourite game so I'm more than happy to spend time helping others enjoy it. Happy gaming!
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Richard Bissell
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PeterM2158 wrote:



Not a problem at all, glad it was clear enough to make sense. Orleans is my favourite game so I'm more than happy to spend time helping others enjoy it. Happy gaming!


The few times I have been able to play the base game, I have loved it every time. I also really enjoyed trying the co-op mode and I am excited to get it back to the table so that we can play it again with a better understanding of the rules. thanks again. meeple
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Peter Mulholland
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TARDIS2008 wrote:
PeterM2158 wrote:



Not a problem at all, glad it was clear enough to make sense. Orleans is my favourite game so I'm more than happy to spend time helping others enjoy it. Happy gaming!


The few times I have been able to play the base game, I have loved it every time. I also really enjoyed trying the co-op mode and I am excited to get it back to the table so that we can play it again with a better understanding of the rules. thanks again. meeple


My pleasure. If you have spare funds kicking about I'd try to get hold of the second expansion Trade & Intrigue as it fixes a couple of small things in the base game. It adds a larger sent of events so you get more variety, adds an orders module (very similar to the carpenter one in Invasion but it actually works) and a new Beneficial Deeds board with much better rewards.
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