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Subject: World Championship Draughts - december 3-18, Netherlands rss

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christian freeling
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Congratulations to Magnus Carlsen.

And now for something completely different …

World Championship Draughts - december 3-18, Netherlands

Two nice young Dutch guys make it out. I hear Draughts is 'cool' again in the Netherlands.
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Luis Bolaños Mures
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Should we expect a draw in every game? And how is the match winner determined in such a case?
 
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christian freeling
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luigi87 wrote:
Should we expect a draw in every game? And how is the match winner determined in such a case?


Well, the usual procedure is to start with twelve draws. Thrilling draws, mindboggling draws, sensational draws and the like.
After that it's rapid and blitz games and someone wins a game, eventually.

It occured to me that Draughts being 'cool' again over here may say as much about the Dutch as it does about Draughts.
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Luis Bolaños Mures
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Digging into the official rules I read this:

Quote:
After 12 regular games the player who has the highest score wins the World Title, only if
he won 3 games at least

So, for the tiebreak not to be invoked, one player has to clinch a sweeping victory in an extremely drawish game (sigh).
 
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christian freeling
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luigi87 wrote:
Digging into the official rules I read this:

Quote:
After 12 regular games the player who has the highest score wins the World Title, only if
he won 3 games at least

So, for the tiebreak not to be invoked, one player has to clinch a sweeping victory in an extremely drawish game (sigh).


In a game theoretical sense, the game has always had the same margin of draws - the one embedded in the total game tree. In the game's golden age the ways to get there were far more hidden. Nowadays it falls victim to its own accumulated theory and the fast spread thereof. AI's have become the perfect teachers to avoid losing.

The current 'coolness' of playing Draughts (remember the draw problems only emerge at top level) may be the last flickering of a candle. Then again, who knows the true depth of tenacity of Draughts players?
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Maurizio De Leo
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I'm still trying to understand why Georgiev withdrew.
An "all-dutch" match gives the impression that it's a local phenomenon.
 
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christian freeling
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megamau wrote:
I'm still trying to understand why Georgiev withdrew.
An "all-dutch" match gives the impression that it's a local phenomenon.

That might well be the case, someday. I don't know why the Russians are absent either. It may be a case of "all Draughts players are equal, but some at least used to be more equal than others". There's not much glory to squeeze out of it anymore.
 
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Joseph DiMuro
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From the official rules (emphasis mine):

Quote:
when no player has won 3 games after 12 games of play


Quote:
When the first 7 regular games all end in a draw


"When", not "if". At least they are honest about it.
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Richard Moxham
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TrojH wrote:
From the official rules (emphasis mine):

Quote:
when no player has won 3 games after 12 games of play


Quote:
When the first 7 regular games all end in a draw


"When", not "if". At least they are honest about it.

Not sure who's on the lap ahead here, and who on the lap behind. But I'll risk looking like an idiot and say that it's always interested me how Dutch apparently has this overlap of meanings for "when" (the logic's not hard to see, actually), with the result that Dutch speakers whose grasp of our language is otherwise all but flawless nevertheless say "when" where we would say "if". Not specific to draughts, in other words.

[Another nice one is "in case of", as in "Do not use this lift in case of fire" - in reality, of course, not at all the same thing as "in the event of" ]
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Luis Bolaños Mures
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mocko wrote:
TrojH wrote:
From the official rules (emphasis mine):

Quote:
when no player has won 3 games after 12 games of play


Quote:
When the first 7 regular games all end in a draw


"When", not "if". At least they are honest about it. :D

Not sure who's on the lap ahead here, and who on the lap behind. But I'll risk looking like an idiot and say that it's always interested me how Dutch apparently has this overlap of meanings for "when" (the logic's not hard to see, actually), with the result that Dutch speakers whose grasp of our language is otherwise all but flawless nevertheless say "when" where we would say "if". Not specific to draughts, in other words.

It's even worse when it's combined with bad use of the conditional tense, as in:

"When I would like draughts, I would play it."
 
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christian freeling
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mocko wrote:
But I'll risk looking like an idiot and say that it's always interested me how Dutch apparently has this overlap of meanings for "when" (the logic's not hard to see, actually), with the result that Dutch speakers whose grasp of our language is otherwise all but flawless nevertheless say "when" where we would say "if". Not specific to draughts, in other words.

Whenever large asteroids or cascadian subduction zones or the yellowstone supervolcano or the like are mentioned, you always hear "it's not a matter of 'if' but 'when'". Grasping the difference thus might hinge on one's interest in the end of the world.
 
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M Samsin
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megamau wrote:
I'm still trying to understand why Georgiev withdrew.


I can't help thinking it has something to do with the whole IDF-64 Russian clan war, and he is somehow a hostage in it. Because it wasn't only him, but the women's champion who also withdrew.

To be honest, I've spent the last week trying to comprehend the draughts politics of the past 25 years. I'm well versed in the chess politics of the last 70, and still find this bewildering compared to it. Mind you, this is me starting from a point of zero knowledge and trying to get up to speed. I'm considering asking some veteran forum poster if he could explain it all to this complete stranger, but I'm not sure even any of them know for sure.

BTW it was kind of odd to come across your name on the usacheckers forum while I was lurking there, as I recognized it from lurking here.
 
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christian freeling
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Here's the live stream of the event, enjoy!


Edit: First game a win for Roel Boomstra, that was a big surprise!
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Maurizio De Leo
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althus wrote:
megamau wrote:
I'm still trying to understand why Georgiev withdrew.


I can't help thinking it has something to do with the whole IDF-64 Russian clan war, and he is somehow a hostage in it. Because it wasn't only him, but the women's champion who also withdrew.

To be honest, I've spent the last week trying to comprehend the draughts politics of the past 25 years. I'm well versed in the chess politics of the last 70, and still find this bewildering compared to it. Mind you, this is me starting from a point of zero knowledge and trying to get up to speed. I'm considering asking some veteran forum poster if he could explain it all to this complete stranger, but I'm not sure even any of them know for sure.

BTW it was kind of odd to come across your name on the usacheckers forum while I was lurking there, as I recognized it from lurking here.


Yes, the abstract games politics are quite bewildering, especially considering the limited amount of "real world" influence they have.
I participated in an event organized by ID-64 and they seem well-meaning, but I don't understand this boycott (if it's indeed the case).
Also the last election of the FID (Italian Draughts Federation) was a very "colorful" event.

In any case it's very common: I was vice-secretary of the FIGG (Italian Go Federation) approximately 10 years ago, and witnessed a scission and and an huge power struggle for what in the end is a group of a few hundred people.
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Nick Bentley
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Abstract games seem to attract people with issues, for reasons I struggle to comprehend.

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christian freeling
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milomilo122 wrote:
Abstract games seem to attract people with issues, for reasons I struggle to comprehend.


I fear I was attracted to them because they offer a world where things are clearcut. Escapism if you like. In consequence it kind of became the world, and issues arose that would seem quite important. To paraphrase John Lennon: "Life is what's going on while you were playing games".

Nowadays I take care to start with "Insofar as abstract strategy games matter at all …" before I comment on a game's 'importance' or 'significance'. And I enjoy life, even if things are not all that clearcut.
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christian freeling
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The second game was an interesting draw in which White managed a narrow escape in the endgame.

live stream
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Nathan James
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Was the first game lost on time? I see 45 moves and lots of pieces left.
 
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christian freeling
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NJames wrote:
Was the first game lost on time? I see 45 moves and lots of pieces left.

Black has 9 men against White's 8, and there's no positional compensation at all. On the contrary, White is pretty much stuck and Black can consider the implications of 24-30 (… 31-27 in particular). Tempo conditions are in Black's favour and the man on square 3 still can assist on either side.

I'm no expert player but it would seem that Black can breakthrough while White's options on that are slim.

It was quite a shock too, first Brexit, then Trump and now a decision in Draughts - who could have imagined all that in such a short time!
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Nathan James
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Was it a resignation then?
 
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christian freeling
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NJames wrote:
Was it a resignation then?

Yes.
 
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christianF wrote:
It was quite a shock too, first Brexit, then Trump and now a decision in Draughts - who could have imagined all that in such a short time!

I know, right? What could be next? Go champions losing against computers??
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christian freeling
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Third game ended in a draw. Of course it was an interesting draw (I'll try to be economical in the choice of adjectives).

live stream
 
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christian freeling
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This is the endposition of game 3. I wondered if more posters wondered how White can keep the draw.
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Carlos Luna
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christianF wrote:
This is the endposition of game 3. I wondered if more posters wondered how White can keep the draw.


I was intrigued, too.
 
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