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Subject: Dual short sword wielding Clovis rss

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Bill H
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Quick question from someone new to the game... The rules state that in order to defeat an Abomination, you need a damage 3 weapon. The one exception noted being Samson at red level using a damage 2 sword in conjunction with his +1 Damage melee skill.

What about Clovis at level 1 (+1 die: melee) duel wielding short swords? Unless I'm misreading the dual wielding rule, he'd roll 3 dice - one for his ability and 1 for each sword. If he hits on all of them, he'd get the 3 damage required to kill an Abomination.

Am I missing something, or is this valid?
 
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T France
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The 3 damage needs to come from one die. You need to be able to do a single hit that deals 3 damage; Clovis is dealing 3 hits that deal 1 each...
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Ian Clarke

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You don't add up the strength of each hit, thus the 3 hits would not kill an abomination, nor would a strength 2 hit kill a fatty. This is explained onm pages 32 and 33 of the rule book.
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Peter Cooper
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Clovis at blue level wielding 2 short swords gets +1 die for each weapon, so that's 4 dice, not three - but all of his hits are strength 1, so he doesn't get to hurt fatties or abominations - the weapon itself has to be Strength 3 (or the hero has to has +1 Strength or Super Strength) for an abomination kill.

Edit: I answered first - I just delayed a bit before pressing the button!whistle
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Bill H
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Thanks all for the super fast responses! I misinterpreted page 14, the explanation of DAMAGE (where it says damage inflicted for each success) as you add the hits up. I now see the rule on pages 32/33.

I also just realized that in this case, if I were to score 3 hits with my attack I could kill 3 walkers at once.

Thanks again!
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Jim Johnson
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Stephanie Baynes wrote:
Clovis at blue level wielding 2 short swords gets +1 die for each weapon, so that's 4 dice, not three:whistle:



That's news to me - I thought it was only one die to the melee attack - not per weapon. My normal strategy is to give Clovis the hammer so he can roll two dice doing two damage each. I may need to rethink that plan, as giving him two short swords will give him 4 dice, and a chance to mow down a serious number of walkers!!
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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It is certainly correct. Just look at the wording of the skill:

Z:BP Rules wrote:
+1 die: Melee – The Survivor’s Melee weapons roll an extra
die for Melee Actions. Dual Melee weapons gain a die each,
for a total of +2 dice per Dual Melee Action.
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Brian Smith
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dakkadakka1 wrote:
Stephanie Baynes wrote:
Clovis at blue level wielding 2 short swords gets +1 die for each weapon, so that's 4 dice, not threewhistle



That's news to me - I thought it was only one die to the melee attack - not per weapon. My normal strategy is to give Clovis the hammer so he can roll two dice doing two damage each. I may need to rethink that plan, as giving him two short swords will give him 4 dice, and a chance to mow down a serious number of walkers!!


Even better? Give Clovis the first great sword that is drawn. 6 dice can cut down a lot of zombies. If he had two great swords he could roll 12 dice at a time.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Bghead8che wrote:
Even better? Give Clovis the first great sword that is drawn. 6 dice can cut down a lot of zombies. If he had two great swords he could roll 12 dice at a time.

Rolling 12 dice also requires taking Swordmaster. Clovis does have it at Orange level, but if you haven't uncovered two Great Swords by then, I think you're better off taking his free Melee action Skill instead.
 
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Christian vdB
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What about giving him two daggers?
1 die + 1 die for an attack with another equipped weapon.
So, 4 dice for dual wielding the daggers and adding 2 dice because of it's melee skill.
6 dice hitting on a 4 is pretty nice.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Yep, that's correct. He's a Dagger master.
 
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Eric Harman
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dakkadakka1 wrote:
Stephanie Baynes wrote:
Clovis at blue level wielding 2 short swords gets +1 die for each weapon, so that's 4 dice, not threewhistle



That's news to me - I thought it was only one die to the melee attack - not per weapon. My normal strategy is to give Clovis the hammer so he can roll two dice doing two damage each. I may need to rethink that plan, as giving him two short swords will give him 4 dice, and a chance to mow down a serious number of walkers!!


Besides the dual daggers for 6 dice, dual hammers for 4 s2 dice is also very nice.
Not to mention a great sword and dagger for 7 (?) Dice
 
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Peter Cooper
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6 dice at 4+ is a lot better than 7 dice at 5+!
 
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Eric Harman
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Stephanie Baynes wrote:
6 dice at 4+ is a lot better than 7 dice at 5+!


I agree. Though dual hammers is still good
 
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Steve W

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Cooperton wrote:
dakkadakka1 wrote:
Stephanie Baynes wrote:
Clovis at blue level wielding 2 short swords gets +1 die for each weapon, so that's 4 dice, not threewhistle



That's news to me - I thought it was only one die to the melee attack - not per weapon. My normal strategy is to give Clovis the hammer so he can roll two dice doing two damage each. I may need to rethink that plan, as giving him two short swords will give him 4 dice, and a chance to mow down a serious number of walkers!!


Besides the dual daggers for 6 dice, dual hammers for 4 s2 dice is also very nice.
Not to mention a great sword and dagger for 7 (?) Dice


Sorry if these have been answered before but reading thru some of these posts have raised some questions I didn't know I had. BTW, first game will be this Friday but I'm trying to have it run as smoothly as possible.

1. Melee damage can be assigned as the player decided to a group of zombies, but can damage from weapons be divided? Ex. Dual Hammers both hit for 2 2-damage hits, making the strike 4 damage output (I know this won't kill an abomination but could take out 2 fatties). Can I divide this damage and kill 4 walkers/runners or a fatty and 2 walker/runners?

2. In an example in a post someone mentioned dual wielding a great sword and a dagger. How can that be? I thought to dual wield striking required 2 weapons of the exact same name. If not, they would have to spend an action per attack, correct?

3. Related to the above example...6 dice at 4+ vs 7 dice at 5+...isn't the comparison flawed? Shouldn't it read more like 6 dice at 4+ using 1 action vs 7 dice at 5+ using 2 actions? Clearly the first option would be better, right?
 
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Chuck Hurd
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grandmasterstevo wrote:
BTW, first game will be this Friday but I'm trying to have it run as smoothly as possible.

That is awesome! Hope you enjoy it!


grandmasterstevo wrote:
1. Melee damage can be assigned as the player decided to a group of zombies, but can damage from weapons be divided? Ex. Dual Hammers both hit for 2 2-damage hits, making the strike 4 damage output (I know this won't kill an abomination but could take out 2 fatties). Can I divide this damage and kill 4 walkers/runners or a fatty and 2 walker/runners?

The damage value from a weapon can not be divided. A 2-damage weapon deals two damage - even on a target that only needs 1 damage to be killed. The "extra" damage is then wasted.


grandmasterstevo wrote:
2. In an example in a post someone mentioned dual wielding a great sword and a dagger. How can that be? I thought to dual wield striking required 2 weapons of the exact same name. If not, they would have to spend an action per attack, correct?

The example you are referring to used the term "dual wield" inappropriately for that example. When using a dagger with a sword you are not dual wielding. As you correctly thought you can only dual wield identical weapons.


Hope you enjoy the game night!
 
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Steve W

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Carcking wrote:
grandmasterstevo wrote:
BTW, first game will be this Friday but I'm trying to have it run as smoothly as possible.

That is awesome! Hope you enjoy it!


grandmasterstevo wrote:
1. Melee damage can be assigned as the player decided to a group of zombies, but can damage from weapons be divided? Ex. Dual Hammers both hit for 2 2-damage hits, making the strike 4 damage output (I know this won't kill an abomination but could take out 2 fatties). Can I divide this damage and kill 4 walkers/runners or a fatty and 2 walker/runners?

The damage value from a weapon can not be divided. A 2-damage weapon deals two damage - even on a target that only needs 1 damage to be killed. The "extra" damage is then wasted.


grandmasterstevo wrote:
2. In an example in a post someone mentioned dual wielding a great sword and a dagger. How can that be? I thought to dual wield striking required 2 weapons of the exact same name. If not, they would have to spend an action per attack, correct?

The example you are referring to used the term "dual wield" inappropriately for that example. When using a dagger with a sword you are not dual wielding. As you correctly thought you can only dual wield identical weapons.


Hope you enjoy the game night!


Thanks!

One last question! if there are fewer than 6 players, is it recommended to still play 6 survivors? Our game night groups will probably be 4, sometimes 5, but I noticed some of the quests say 6 Survivors. Is the game balanced around having all 6 in each quest?

Thanks again!
 
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Chuck Hurd
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grandmasterstevo wrote:
One last question! if there are fewer than 6 players, is it recommended to still play 6 survivors? Our game night groups will probably be 4, sometimes 5, but I noticed some of the quests say 6 Survivors. Is the game balanced around having all 6 in each quest?

The game is balanced for 6 Survivors. We often times play with 4 or 5 players. When we play short a player we just have one Survivor float with the First Player token.

You can always try the game out with 4 or 5 Survivors, if you're looking for more challenging, nail biting play. Some of the seasoned Z-ciders probably do. There are plenty of ways to ratchet up the difficulty though while keeping with 6 Survivors.
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Steve W

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Carcking wrote:
grandmasterstevo wrote:
One last question! if there are fewer than 6 players, is it recommended to still play 6 survivors? Our game night groups will probably be 4, sometimes 5, but I noticed some of the quests say 6 Survivors. Is the game balanced around having all 6 in each quest?

The game is balanced for 6 Survivors. We often times play with 4 or 5 players. When we play short a player we just have one Survivor float with the First Player token.

You can always try the game out with 4 or 5 Survivors, if you're looking for more challenging, nail biting play. Some of the seasoned Z-ciders probably do. There are plenty of ways to ratchet up the difficulty though while keeping with 6 Survivors.


First player token-floating survivors, I love it! That'll be the first thing we try. Thanks!
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Yes, in every quest except the tutorial, you want at least 6 Survivors.

Thankfully, with the dashboards, it is quite easy to pass a Survivor around the table, so it is easy to share Survivors with a little house-ruling. Here's my methods of preferred play:

1-player: Control all 6 Survivors. To add a bit of challenge, I suggest you don't use the rule that allows you to choose the order of your Survivors' activations. In other words, choose to activate your Survivors in the order that they would activate if you were playing 6-player.

2-player: Each player controls 3 Survivors each. Do not use the official player order rules here as they don't work well with 2 players. Instead, let players alternate activating one of their Survivors at a time.

3-player: Each player controls 2 Survivors each. The official rules work fine here with each player performing activations for their two Survivors in the order they choose when it is that players turn.

4-player: Each player controls one main Survivor. Each pair of players share control of an extra Survivor. Each round, you either pass the shared Survivor to your partner or receive the shared Survivor from your partner. Use standard playing rules for having multiple Survivors beyond that.

5-player: Each player controls one main Survivor and a 6th Survivor is shared by everyone. Each round, the player with the shared Survivor passes the Survivor to their right (in the opposite order of the 1st-player marker). Use standard rules otherwise.

6-player: Just use official rules.

7+ players: Use the official rules with the scaling for extra player rules found in the rulebook.

grandmasterstevo wrote:
First player token-floating survivors, I love it! That'll be the first thing we try. Thanks!

I suggest you move the extra Survivor in the opposite order of the token as I mention above. Otherwise, the shared Survivor is going to be either the first or second Survivor to activate each round. This will end up giving them more experience on average than other Survivors, as there are generally more Zombies to kill early in the round compared to later.
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Chuck Hurd
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Clipper wrote:
grandmasterstevo wrote:
First player token-floating survivors, I love it! That'll be the first thing we try. Thanks!

I suggest you move the extra Survivor in the opposite order of the token as I mention above. Otherwise, the shared Survivor is going to be either the first or second Survivor to activate each round. This will end up giving them more experience on average than other Survivors, as there are generally more Zombies to kill early in the round compared to later.

Typically, what happens is, since he now has two characters at hand, the first player tends to favor his own survivor with Z kills and he shorts the floating survivor. The floating survivor usually lags behind in XP or at least stays on par.

When we play 4 player we have two floating survivors. One floats with the first player token, the other floats to the player directly opposite the first player.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Ah, you have a selfish group, then (I don't mean this in a bad way). A group that is trying to maximise their potential would absolutely capitalise the Survivor with the superior benefit of always going first.

So yeah, it depends on group. Incidentally, I've also been toying with the idea of letting the player with two Survivors simply choose which one they are going to pass on at the end of the round. It allows you to change things up when you aren't really enjoying your main character and want to try something else. You could also strategically game based on the order the characters will activate next round...
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Chuck Hurd
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Clipper wrote:
Incidentally, I've also been toying with the idea of letting the player with two Survivors simply choose which one they are going to pass on at the end of the round. It allows you to change things up when you aren't really enjoying your main character and want to try something else. You could also strategically game based on the order the characters will activate next round...

This is an interesting take on it. We'll have to try that. If you like the floating survivor more than your own, let yours start floating. That would work.
 
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Question regarding Nelly and daggers. She is Dual wielding daggers plus her armor slot lets her equip a dagger ther. So she has 3 daggers equipped. How many dice does she get? I am thinking 1 for each dagger, plus 1 for each having another melee equiped for a total of 6 dice. Is that correct?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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There is a three-hand rule in the rulebook that makes it clear that while you can have three weapons equipped, you can only use 2 Hand Equipment cards in any action you perform.

Thus, Nelly is only able to use two of the daggers in an attack and she thus rolls 4 dice.
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