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Subject: forbidden zone, the jungle, phase 3 losing will counters rss

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lel dude
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1) for the jungle: "Take back to your hand this place card and 1 place card from your discard pile"

When this place card is played and taking the effect of this card, do you ALSO have to discard "The Jungle" card at phase 4 where it says "each hunted discards the place card played, face up"? or do you get to keep both "The Jungle" and the 1 discarded card?

2) for the forbidden zone "All hunted discard 1 place card simultaneously".

During phase 2 the creature is meant to place tokens on place cards. Does the HUNTER place his tokens BEFORE all the hunted discard their place card? Or does the Hunted choose a place card to discard AFTER the HUNTER has placed his token on the place cards? or does the HUNTER place their tokens, and the hunted reveal their discarded card BOTH AT THE SAME TIME? it seems like whoever goes first is at a disadvantage

3) Let's say someone plays a place card (1: The Lair), gets caught by the hunter and loses all their will at the end of phase 3. They take back all their discarded cards (2,3,4,5) and will token. does the place card (1: The Lair) get discarded at phase 4? or does the (1: The Lair) card go back into their hand also?

4) what happens when a hunted runs out of place cards at the end of phase 4?

many thanks for helping!
 
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Matthias Adler
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Questions 1 + 3:
While you have a point that the discarding rule in phase 4 could be interpreted onto played cards taken back to the hand (which is clearly done for jungle, swamp and dropping to zero will counters in phase 3), I'm convinced it has to be read inherently, that cards taken back count no more in phase 4 as being played. Especially the jungle would be useless, because effectively taking back only one other discarded card can be done anyway as an alternative to using the text on a place card. And for phase 3 losing last will counter it would have been really easy to write only taking back all discarded cards is allowed instead of the written 'all cards'.

Questiion 2:
Generally hunt cards (survival cards, too) can be played 'at any time' during their printed phase (there are cards, which limit this to 'before something happens' in the phase, but that's part of the card text). Therefore, the Creature can and should use it at the point inside the phase, when it helps the most (and the Hunted do the same with respect to survival cards). For 'Forbidden Zone' this should be before placing the hunt tokens.

Question 4:
In phase 4 itself nothing happens. However, if the Hunted do not win in this phase 4 by moving the rescue counter, the next round starts and in phase 1 each Hunted has to play a card. Therefore, with no cards in hand, those Hunted have to use the otherwise option to 'resist' or 'give up'.
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Fred
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Thanks Matthias, you are right


leldude wrote:
1) for the jungle: "Take back to your hand this place card and 1 place card from your discard pile"

When this place card is played and taking the effect of this card, do you ALSO have to discard "The Jungle" card at phase 4 where it says "each hunted discards the place card played, face up"? or do you get to keep both "The Jungle" and the 1 discarded card?


If you manage to get back the played card into your hand (e.g. the Jungle), you don't have to discard it during phase 4. The card is not consider anymore as "place card played".

leldude wrote:
2) for the forbidden zone "All hunted discard 1 place card simultaneously".

During phase 2 the creature is meant to place tokens on place cards. Does the Hunted place his tokens BEFORE all the hunted discard their place card? Or does the Hunted choose a place card to discard AFTER the hunted has placed his token on the place cards? or does the hunted place their tokens, and the hunter reveal their discarded card BOTH AT THE SAME TIME? it seems like whoever goes first is at a disadvantage


Matthias summarized it perfectly, nothing else to say. You play a hunt or a survival card at any time during the appropriate phase. In your exemple, you should play the card at the start of Phase 2 before placing your hunt token in order to limit the number of cards in the hand of the Hunted.

leldude wrote:
3) Let's say someone plays a place card (1: The Lair), gets caught by the hunter and loses all their will at the end of phase 3. They take back all their discarded cards (2,3,4,5) and will token. does the place card (1: The Lair) get discarded at phase 4? or does the (1: The Lair) card go back into their hand also?


If you loose your last will, you take back all your cards immediately as well as your will counters so as per question one, you have no card on the table so card considered as "played". You will start phase 1 will all your cards and will counters.

leldude wrote:
4) what happens when a hunted runs out of place cards at the end of phase 4?


Phase 1 you have to resist or give up before playing a card. A Hunted must play a Place card during the Phase 1.
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lel dude
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many thanks to both of you for the clarification, this makes perfect sense to me now.

could i ask whether it's recommended to put headphones on the hunter so that he/she cannot listen in on the hunted's discussions? we have lost every match to the hunter so far because the hunted are not very good (up to 6 of us). there's too many of us and we simply cannot communicate on the same wavelength while being cryptic and coordinate our bluffing in front of the eavesdropping hunter at the same time

its getting to the point where the hunted are unwilling to say much for fear of leaking their strategy. it results in this weird dynamic whereby the hunted's are trying to not just predict the hunter's moves but also each others! so all that happens is an uncomfortable silence around the table despite it being supposed to be a cooperative experience (against the hunter)

just wondering if this variant would go against the spirit of the game or tilt the balance of the game too much in favour of the hunted? so far it hasnt even been close either, the hunter often wins by up to 5 spaces ahead...
 
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Espreman Etienne
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Rules say Creature may hear everyhting. But rules are made to be changed... ;-)
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