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Subject: A couple of Market questions rss

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Larry Schneider
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Cos Cob
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1. When you use the Head Official ability on a Market card, do you also receive the Clay? I've been assuming the answer is NO since there's no indication on the card that you get the Clay (while there is an indication on the Chief Officer Market card, for example, that you still get to swap 2 tiles). Or was this indication about the clay simply missed?

2. When you use the Librarian ability on the Market card, I'm assuming that graphic on the card means draw 3 cards instead of drawing 2. And draw 4 cards if you also own the Training Improvement (133). But you only draw 2 cards if you already have 4 in hand or draw 1 if you already have 5 in hand.

Of course, if you're otherwise eligible, you would ignore all this and just draw 4 cards regardless of hand size and keep 2 instead (or discard the number of cards necessary to ensure your hand size is 6 or fewer cards when you're done).

Thanks!
 
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Annemarie Post
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schnel wrote:
1. When you use the Head Official ability on a Market card, do you also receive the Clay? I've been assuming the answer is NO since there's no indication on the card that you get the Clay (while there is an indication on the Chief Officer Market card, for example, that you still get to swap 2 tiles). Or was this indication about the clay simply missed?
Thanks!


The 'Head Official' place lets you take a clay and starting player. The Market place just lets you take starting player. (It's not a duplication of the 'Head Official' place, the symbol just means 'starting player').

schnel wrote:
2. When you use the Librarian ability on the Market card, I'm assuming that graphic on the card means draw 3 cards instead of drawing 2. And draw 4 cards if you also own the Training Improvement (133). But you only draw 2 cards if you already have 4 in hand or draw 1 if you already have 5 in hand.

Of course, if you're otherwise eligible, you would ignore all this and just draw 4 cards regardless of hand size and keep 2 instead (or discard the number of cards necessary to ensure your hand size is 6 or fewer cards when you're done).


This was answered partly here.

The Market card normally lets you draw 1 improvement card. With a Librarian, you would draw 3 and keep 1.

Here's somthing about the Training Improvement. I don't remember what it does anymore, so I'll come back to that if someone can remind me, or I check it myself.

About hand limit: your hand limit is 6. If you don't have a Library, you cannot draw cards if you already have 6 (if you have 5, you can only draw one). If you have a library, you temporarily ignore the hand limit. So you take the number of cards you can take, keep the number of cards you can keep and then check if you have exceeded your hand limit. If so, you now have to discard down to 6 cards.
I didn't completely understand your hand limit question, but I hope this helps.
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Larry Schneider
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Cos Cob
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Anny48 wrote:
Your hand limit is 6. If you don't have a Library, you cannot draw cards if you already have 6 (if you have 5, you can only draw one).
I also remember reading that the Scholar Colony also lets you temporarily ignore your hand limit (page 17 of the rules).

Anny48 wrote:
If you have a library, you temporarily ignore the hand limit. So you take the number of cards you can take, keep the number of cards you can keep and then check if you have exceeded your hand limit. If so, you now have to discard down to 6 cards.
I didn't completely understand your hand limit question, but I hope this helps.

Some examples to clarify now that I've read your email:
Example 1: I currently hold 3 cards. I draw 2. Of those 2 that I drew, I discard 1 of them. I'm left with a hand of 4 cards.

Example 2: I currently hold 6 cards. I draw 4 (because I have a Level 1 Scholar embassy). Of those 4 that I drew, I discard 2 of them. I'm left with a hand of 8 cards. Of those 8 cards, I discard any 2 of them (which might or might not include some of the cards I just drew).

Also, the Level 1 Scholar embassy lets you draw 2 cards during Production and keep 1. Though I'm not sure if that particular ability lets you temporarily exceed the hand limit or not. If it doesn't, then you wouldn't be able to draw any cards during Production if you held at least 5 cards in your hand...or maybe it would let you draw 1 card and then you must keep it. But if it did let you temporarily hold more than 6 cards (and I kind of think that it does), then if you had 6, you would draw 2 at Production, keep 1 of those 2, then discard any 1 card from your hand.

Does that all sound right to you?
 
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Joseph Cochran
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The way we've been playing is that no matter what powers you have, you're not allowed to draw if after resolving your power you'd have more than 6 cards. It means that with 5 cards and some powers you can't draw, but it makes sense as a generalization. I'm looking forward to an official clarification at some point, but our rule keeps it simple and seems to be in the spirit.
 
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Larry Schneider
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jsciv wrote:
The way we've been playing is that no matter what powers you have, you're not allowed to draw if after resolving your power you'd have more than 6 cards. It means that with 5 cards and some powers you can't draw, but it makes sense as a generalization. I'm looking forward to an official clarification at some point, but our rule keeps it simple and seems to be in the spirit.

Hi Joseph,

That I know is incorrect. If you check page 17 of the rules, you'll see that both the Library and the Scholar Colony allow you to temporarily exceed the hand limit of 6 cards. So in those 2 cases only, you would draw whatever number of cards you were allowed to draw, keep whatever you are allowed to keep, and then, if your hand size was over 6, you would discard any of those cards to get back down to 6.

Thus, if I held 6 cards and had a Scholar embassy, for instance, I would draw 4 cards at the Librarian (5, if I held the Training Improvement), then I would keep 2 of those cards and discard the rest, and then, because I was left with a hand of 8 cards, I would have to discard any 2 of those cards to return to a hand size of 6.
 
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Joseph Cochran
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schnel wrote:
jsciv wrote:
The way we've been playing is that no matter what powers you have, you're not allowed to draw if after resolving your power you'd have more than 6 cards. It means that with 5 cards and some powers you can't draw, but it makes sense as a generalization. I'm looking forward to an official clarification at some point, but our rule keeps it simple and seems to be in the spirit.


That I know is incorrect. If you check page 17 of the rules, you'll see that both the Library and the Scholar Colony allow you to temporarily exceed the hand limit of 6 cards.


No, you missed part of what I was saying. I said that you weren't allowed to draw if you would be over after resolving your power (which would include the temporary extension allowed by the library).
 
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Larry Schneider
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Cos Cob
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jsciv wrote:
schnel wrote:
jsciv wrote:
The way we've been playing is that no matter what powers you have, you're not allowed to draw if after resolving your power you'd have more than 6 cards. It means that with 5 cards and some powers you can't draw, but it makes sense as a generalization. I'm looking forward to an official clarification at some point, but our rule keeps it simple and seems to be in the spirit.


That I know is incorrect. If you check page 17 of the rules, you'll see that both the Library and the Scholar Colony allow you to temporarily exceed the hand limit of 6 cards.


No, you missed part of what I was saying. I said that you weren't allowed to draw if you would be over after resolving your power (which would include the temporary extension allowed by the library).

Oh, sorry about the misunderstanding.
 
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Joseph Cochran
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schnel wrote:
jsciv wrote:
No, you missed part of what I was saying. I said that you weren't allowed to draw if you would be over after resolving your power (which would include the temporary extension allowed by the library).

Oh, sorry about the misunderstanding.


No worries. I expect that whenever official clarification comes I'll be wrong, but until then this seems simple and in the spirit of the thing.
 
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Jeff Thornsen
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Page 17 of the rules makes it clear (to me) that even if you already have 6 cards, you can still draw more cards if you have a Library or the Scholars Colony.

Rules, Page 17 wrote:

You may not have more than 6 cards in hand!

So if you have 5 cards in hand already and move to the Librarian, you may only draw one new Improvement. Exceeding the hand size limit is not allowed. As long as you have 6 cards in hand, you may not use the Librarian at all.

You may not discard cards from hand!

The only way to get rid of cards from your hand is to play them (see “Playing Improvements” below). It is possible that you get stuck with cards in your hand that you cannot play any longer (e.g., because you cannot meet their requirements).

Both of these rules can be (partially) disabled by the Library and the Scholar Colony. Their special abilities allow you to exceed the hand size limit for a brief moment. Even with 6 cards in hand (Emphasis Mine), you could still use the Librarian. If you do, you must reduce your hand size to 6 cards immediately afterward by discarding cards from hand unused.

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Joseph Cochran
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Faranim wrote:
Rules, Page 17 wrote:

Both of these rules can be (partially) disabled by the Library and the Scholar Colony. Their special abilities allow you to exceed the hand size limit for a brief moment. Even with 6 cards in hand (Emphasis Mine), you could still use the Librarian. If you do, you must reduce your hand size to 6 cards immediately afterward by discarding cards from hand unused.


Sweet! I knew I'd be wrong!
 
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Annemarie Post
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schnel wrote:
Anny48 wrote:
Your hand limit is 6. If you don't have a Library, you cannot draw cards if you already have 6 (if you have 5, you can only draw one).
I also remember reading that the Scholar Colony also lets you temporarily ignore your hand limit (page 17 of the rules).


That's correct. Level 1 of the Scholar Colony acts as a library as well.

Schnel wrote:

Some examples to clarify now that I've read your email:
Example 1: I currently hold 3 cards. I draw 2. Of those 2 that I drew, I discard 1 of them. I'm left with a hand of 4 cards.


This example is when you draw cards with the Scholar Colony in the production phase? Remember, when you go to the Librarian, you can take 2 and keep them both.

schnel wrote:
Example 2: I currently hold 6 cards. I draw 4 (because I have a Level 1 Scholar embassy). Of those 4 that I drew, I discard 2 of them. I'm left with a hand of 8 cards. Of those 8 cards, I discard any 2 of them (which might or might not include some of the cards I just drew).


Correct.

schnel wrote:
Also, the Level 1 Scholar embassy lets you draw 2 cards during Production and keep 1. Though I'm not sure if that particular ability lets you temporarily exceed the hand limit or not. If it doesn't, then you wouldn't be able to draw any cards during Production if you held at least 5 cards in your hand...or maybe it would let you draw 1 card and then you must keep it. But if it did let you temporarily hold more than 6 cards (and I kind of think that it does), then if you had 6, you would draw 2 at Production, keep 1 of those 2, then discard any 1 card from your hand.

Does that all sound right to you?


I would say that it lets you exceed your hand limit, but I don't know that for sure.
 
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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The Scholar Colony grants you all the powers of a Library, so yes, you can exceed the hand limit temporarily. With its additional "draw 2, keep 1" during production, you would do exactly that: draw 2 cards, keep 1 (and discard the other), then check your hand size. With 6 cards in hand, you'd still draw 2, keep 1, be left with 7 cards in hand, so you'd have to discard any 1 card of those 7 (which may be the one you just kept or another card).
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Larry Schneider
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Ponton wrote:
The Scholar Colony grants you all the powers of a Library, so yes, you can exceed the hand limit temporarily. With its additional "draw 2, keep 1" during production, you would do exactly that: draw 2 cards, keep 1 (and discard the other), then check your hand size. With 6 cards in hand, you'd still draw 2, keep 1, be left with 7 cards in hand, so you'd have to discard any 1 card of those 7 (which may be the one you just kept or another card).

Thanks for clarifying the last part.
 
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