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Mythic Battles: Pantheon» Forums » General

Subject: Late Backer rss

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Ezra Nicholson
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St. Thomas
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Does anyone know if there will be a late backer option? I intended on backing and got distracted at work.
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Chuck Marks
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Sioux falls
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Don't think they ever discussed it. You may want to contact Mystic Games directly.
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Aditya C
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Afaik, they said no.
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Emivaldo Sousa
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On the live interview with UndeadViking, Leo said that maybe, but if there is one, it will not be right now and it will not have the same conditions of the kickstarter, as they wanted to reward people that have pledged during the campaign.
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Jeremiah H
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You could always befriend a backer and have them double up, then pay shipping.
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Ezra Nicholson
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St. Thomas
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Xerobull wrote:
You could always befriend a backer and have them double up, then pay shipping.


Good call. Any Ontario (Canada) backers out there want to help me out? I will pay up front.

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Benoit VOGT
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We are thinking about opening the PM to anybody (late pledgers) but nothing is decdied yet.
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Benoit0905 wrote:
We are thinking about opening the PM to anybody (late pledgers) but nothing is decdied yet.

Benoit, already awake! I would think you guys would sleep for a few days now the KS has ended! laugh
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the Florian Trout
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Arvada
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personally, i don't think it would be fair to give Late Backers the KSE Stretch Goals.

i've missed KS before and had to wait for eBay or pay retail. it happens.
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Mike Brown
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Too late for me to get in on the Conan Kickstarter, missed that one I did.

Gonna deal with the ebay pirates now. arrrh
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Tyrone
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Benoit0905 wrote:
We are thinking about opening the PM to anybody (late pledgers) but nothing is decdied yet.


I hope there would be a way to make *very* late pledges (mid-late 2017 maybe) even if it means having to paying more and having to miss the December 2017 delivery date for as long as those who do not have enough funds during the PM can still have a chance to complete the set in the future, hopefully before the product hits retail.
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Emivaldo Sousa
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Turonee wrote:
Benoit0905 wrote:
We are thinking about opening the PM to anybody (late pledgers) but nothing is decdied yet.


I hope there would be a way to make *very* late pledges (mid-late 2017 maybe) even if it means having to paying more and having to miss the December 2017 delivery date for as long as those who do not have enough funds during the PM can still have a chance to complete the set in the future, hopefully before the product hits retail.

What you are asking would require a new production cycle before the product reaches retail, which is risky as hell and not likely to happen.
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Petr Molik
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Benoit0905 wrote:
We are thinking about opening the PM to anybody (late pledgers) but nothing is decdied yet.


I think allowing access to PM for new people at the same conditions would be a slap in the face to the backers who upped their pledge during the campaign right before Christmas season to help the community unlock the SG's. There should be a possibility to pre-order the retail version of the box but no free SG's and KSEs.
Look, I understand the appeal for the creators. Kickstarter takes a significant cut of the money raised, where you only pay the credit card paygate for the money raised in PM. But if you are smart and play the long game (with future campaigns feeding of this one) you should not undermine the goodwill of the actual backers with this "PM for everybody" shenanigans. Otherwise, your next campaign is going to tank because everybody will say: "Why pay them now when I can get the same conditions and freebies in 4 months time".
Of course I missed on some campaigns in the past, but for me the limited duration of KS campaigns is a feature not a bug and part of the experience.
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Gustavo Sanchez
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petrmolik wrote:
Benoit0905 wrote:
We are thinking about opening the PM to anybody (late pledgers) but nothing is decdied yet.


I think allowing access to PM for new people at the same conditions would be a slap in the face to the backers who upped their pledge during the campaign right before Christmas season to help the community unlock the SG's.


I have to say I agree with this.

Did they allow late pledges for Conan?
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J P
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nexbot wrote:
petrmolik wrote:
Benoit0905 wrote:
We are thinking about opening the PM to anybody (late pledgers) but nothing is decdied yet.


I think allowing access to PM for new people at the same conditions would be a slap in the face to the backers who upped their pledge during the campaign right before Christmas season to help the community unlock the SG's.


I have to say I agree with this.

Did they allow late pledges for Conan?


Yes. Most games do. All of CMON's games. Cthulhu Wars. Vampire Hunters. This War of Mine. Dark Souls. Kingdom Death. Siege of the Citadel. Deep Madness. They all did. It's pretty standard.
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Petr Molik
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DancingFool wrote:
nexbot wrote:
petrmolik wrote:
Benoit0905 wrote:
We are thinking about opening the PM to anybody (late pledgers) but nothing is decdied yet.


I think allowing access to PM for new people at the same conditions would be a slap in the face to the backers who upped their pledge during the campaign right before Christmas season to help the community unlock the SG's.


I have to say I agree with this.

Did they allow late pledges for Conan?


Yes. Most games do. All of CMON's games. Cthulhu Wars. Vampire Hunters. This War of Mine. Dark Souls. Kingdom Death. Siege of the Citadel. Deep Madness. They all did. It's pretty standard.


This is what I find troubling with the wole PM system. What was initially created as a simplification for data collection, add-on selection and collection of shipment fees for bigger projects because their final weight was unknown at the start of the campaign has degenerated into this perma-campaign late pledge system, that is saving KS fees for the creators and undermines (for me) the spirit of KS campaigns.

It is probably inevitable and here to stay as long as backers and Kickstarter will put up with it, but I much prefer the approach of Gloomhaven (late pre-orders at a price increasing towards delivery) or Scythe (this is it, we don't use PM, pledge here and now).

Various PM's were created as a management tool for the projects with increased complexity for which the crappy KS survey is insufficient, but if this continues, I see KS buying one of these PM builds and "force" the creators to use it. It would be nasty, but I see that coming in the next 24 months.
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Gustavo Sanchez
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petrmolik wrote:
DancingFool wrote:
nexbot wrote:
petrmolik wrote:
Benoit0905 wrote:
We are thinking about opening the PM to anybody (late pledgers) but nothing is decdied yet.


I think allowing access to PM for new people at the same conditions would be a slap in the face to the backers who upped their pledge during the campaign right before Christmas season to help the community unlock the SG's.


I have to say I agree with this.

Did they allow late pledges for Conan?


Yes. Most games do. All of CMON's games. Cthulhu Wars. Vampire Hunters. This War of Mine. Dark Souls. Kingdom Death. Siege of the Citadel. Deep Madness. They all did. It's pretty standard.


This is what I find troubling with the wole PM system. What was initially created as a simplification for data collection, add-on selection and collection of shipment fees for bigger projects because their final weight was unknown at the start of the campaign has degenerated into this perma-campaign late pledge system, that is saving KS fees for the creators and undermines (for me) the spirit of KS campaigns.

It is probably inevitable and here to stay as long as backers and Kickstarter will put up with it, but I much prefer the approach of Gloomhaven (late pre-orders at a price increasing towards delivery) or Scythe (this is it, we don't use PM, pledge here and now).

Various PM's were created as a management tool for the projects with increased complexity for which the crappy KS survey is insufficient, but if this continues, I see KS buying one of these PM builds and "force" the creators to use it. It would be nasty, but I see that coming in the next 24 months.


Wait, so KS makes $0 from late pledges? I'm surprised it's still allowed...
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J P
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petrmolik wrote:
DancingFool wrote:
nexbot wrote:
petrmolik wrote:
Benoit0905 wrote:
We are thinking about opening the PM to anybody (late pledgers) but nothing is decdied yet.


I think allowing access to PM for new people at the same conditions would be a slap in the face to the backers who upped their pledge during the campaign right before Christmas season to help the community unlock the SG's.


I have to say I agree with this.

Did they allow late pledges for Conan?


Yes. Most games do. All of CMON's games. Cthulhu Wars. Vampire Hunters. This War of Mine. Dark Souls. Kingdom Death. Siege of the Citadel. Deep Madness. They all did. It's pretty standard.


This is what I find troubling with the wole PM system. What was initially created as a simplification for data collection, add-on selection and collection of shipment fees for bigger projects because their final weight was unknown at the start of the campaign has degenerated into this perma-campaign late pledge system, that is saving KS fees for the creators and undermines (for me) the spirit of KS campaigns.

It is probably inevitable and here to stay as long as backers and Kickstarter will put up with it, but I much prefer the approach of Gloomhaven (late pre-orders at a price increasing towards delivery) or Scythe (this is it, we don't use PM, pledge here and now).

.


I'm actually grateful for it. It's what allowed me to be able to get in on Conan and Cthulhu Wars because I didn't find out about them until the campaigns were over. 30 days isn't a long time and people are busy. Not everybody is able to keep up with KS on a regular basis. Also, not everyone is rich and can throw gobs of cash out at any given moment. Allowing for late pledges enables people of more modest means to save up for something they genuinely care about.
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L S
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I don't see any problem with allowing late pledges after the end of the KS campaign. I mean, it's not as if my enjoyment of the game is diminished in any way if somebody else gets another copy. If timely pledges should be rewarded at all, a small discount (in analogy to the distinction between early birds and regular pledges) seems fair to me.

However, even though I'm all in favor of letting as many people as possible get the game, I don't really see how late pledges are supposed to be of benefit for people who couldn't afford the game earlier (in distinction to people who just learned too late about the campaign). Maybe I'm naive about this, but if somebody doesn't have enough of a safety fund to buy a board game right now, how is this person supposed to buy it two or three months later? I wouldn't want to think that somebody who apparently has no savings to shift around would spend their next paycheck on a luxury item. No matter how cool the game may be, if I couldn't afford it during the campaign, what are the odds that I'll be able to afford it in February?

Just to clarify, the above isn't intended as some sort of social Darwinism. There's no shame in being chash-strapped, almost everybody is now and then. However, in my experience this situation doesn't resolve itself over the course of two months - and it might take much longer if one was to pledge for board games instead of building some kind of savings for rainy days first.
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J P
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Randombias wrote:
I don't see any problem with allowing late pledges after the end of the KS campaign. I mean, it's not as if my enjoyment of the game is diminished in any way if somebody else gets another copy. If timely pledges should be rewarded at all, a small discount (in analogy to the distinction between early birds and regular pledges) seems fair to me.

However, even though I'm all in favor of letting as many people as possible get the game, I don't really see how late pledges are supposed to be of benefit for people who couldn't afford the game earlier (in distinction to people who just learned too late about the campaign). Maybe I'm naive about this, but if somebody doesn't have enough of a safety fund to buy a board game right now, how is this person supposed to buy it two or three months later? I wouldn't want to think that somebody who apparently has no savings to shift around would spend their next paycheck on a luxury item. No matter how cool the game may be, if I couldn't afford it during the campaign, what are the odds that I'll be able to afford it in February?

Just to clarify, the above isn't intended as some sort of social Darwinism. There's no shame in being chash-strapped, almost everybody is now and then. However, in my experience this situation doesn't resolve itself over the course of two months - and it might take much longer if one was to pledge for board games instead of building some kind of savings for rainy days first.


You're not naive, but you haven't thought enough about all the possibilities. For me, I'm an independent contractor/freelancer, so there are times when I have tons of money and times when I don't. Sometimes, I may not have the money right at the moment a Kickstarter is ending, but I know for a fact I'll have a lot of money in 2-3 months. I'm sure the people making these games understand that, because that's how life is for a lot of people in creative fields. In fact, that's exactly how life is for people whose sole source of income is Kickstarter, I would imagine.

Obviously, someone cash-strapped that goes "all-in" is setting themselves up for trouble. But saving $10-20 a month can get you at least a core game in some cases. Some PMs are open for a long time. Cthulhu Wars: Onslaught 2 was open for about 8 months. That's a decent amount of time.

There are many other reasons as well.

Also, even in the Mythic Battles campaign I saw comments from people saying they needed to reduce their pledge because their paycheck wasn't going to be in on time, so they'd make it up in the PM. So, some people do live on the edge. And so what? If people have less money and they have to juggle things around, as long as they're paying bills and feeding their children, who's to say they're not allowed to spend their money however they want? Poor people like to have fun sometimes, too, you know.
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mark keedwell
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if they allow late backers maybe a 10% increase on the pledge we had.
and only for a certain amount of time ,.
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Emivaldo Sousa
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I was able to late pledge some games and I am grateful for that.

I personally don't mind if people have the chance to late pledge. It is cool to share the love.

That said, I can easily see how this strategy can backfire. People were making sacrifices during the campaign, and a lot of people simply is counting with the feature now, weakening the campaign itself, among other little issues that might eventually pile up.

I would say that the ideal compromise is allow for late pledges but with a cost increase, even if it is a symbolic 10 bucks, and I am strongly in favor that people that participate in the kickstarter have some kind of small exclusive token (a signed box, a pin, a mini with no gameplay value, a poster).

In the long run, everyone benefits if the drive to pledge during the kickstarter remains strong. If you ever have truly backed a campaign, participating in the forum, cheering for each stretch goal, bonding with the creators and trying to get more backers to the campaign you know what I am talking about.

Kickstarter has already changed too much into a pre-order system. Trying to keep the spirit of participating of something truly unique I think is key for the success of the platform. Big games will continue to be big, but the mentality of not being necessary to participate during the campaign might hurt smaller ventures in the future. And, big or small, if it feels unique, it will create memorable moments and situations.

To me, it is like a concert: you had to be there to experience it fully, but you can buy the songs later if you want to.
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Tyrone
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Inatead of just a cost increase, maybe they could also remove the all-in bundles and/or even the bonus Python/ Upgraded Pandora's Box for late backers. Personally, I'd like to get things at a cheaper cost but I also understand that early backers should also be rewarded for the time, money, and effort they put into making this awesome game a reality.

In the same way, and as with the points raised in the previous posts, we should also recognize that not everyone is in equal footing when it comes to time, monetary, or other concerns. But this doesn't mean that they should have 'less rights' to gain access to something they love. As long as they're not causing trouble at their homes or with anyone, I guess it's not wrong for them to also want something that could make them happy.

Kickstarter is about sharing the love and one's passion with others and instead of leaving people out, it would be nice if we become more supportive and help find ways to make the game more accessible to those that enjoy the same things that we do but due to some unforseen circumstances were not able to join the run.

In such a niche group as board gaming, welcoming more people in is always much better than wanting to be 'exclusive'.

But of course, with all that has been said, as this is still a business, we still have to consider whether or not such a move would help secure Monolithic/ Mythic's future in the board gaming world. If it would be finacially viable for them, I suggest the go for it.
 
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Petr Molik
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Turonee wrote:
In such a niche group as board gaming, welcoming more people in is always much better than wanting to be 'exclusive'.

But of course, with all that has been said, as this is still a business, we still have to consider whether or not such a move would help secure Monolithic/ Mythic's future in the board gaming world. If it would be finacially viable for them, I suggest the go for it.

I'm all for inclusiveness and welcoming new people in the hobby. But promoting a significant part of Stretch goals as KS exclusives and then puting them for sale as late pledge makes a strong divergence with what was comunicated during the campaign.
I fully respect the creators refusing the concept of KSEs or offering just a token pin or poster. Companies like Victory Point Games or DVG are telling us: "This is exactly the same product as will be in retail, but you'll get it first and with discount" Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if you decide to run your campaigns with more than a token excusives, then stick to your guns and KEEP them excusives. If a fashion designer proposes a limited edition of a handbag available only during the Paris fashion week, it only dilutes the brand if he sells 1000 more of them six months later. The argument of "non inclusivenes" or "missing out" doesn't really apply here. All of us constantly miss on some "deals" or "limited offers" all the time. If you miss to buy a limited print box of the music album or anniversary edition of the comic book, it does not mean that the band or publisher is non inclusive for new fans, but if you promise something exclusive, don't make it ubiquitous.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Well .. what's the difference between a $1 backer during the KS - and a backer a month or so after?

Not a lot. Perhaps they could give KS backers an extra card or something. Or even leave Apollo out as "KS only".
Or only deliver them in run #2, three months later.
I don't really see the problem.

The more people have and play the game, the merrier.
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