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Warfighter: The WWII Tactical Combat Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rules Clarification on "Keep Clear" rss

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Dave Webster
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The definition of Keep Clear x in the Keywords reference reads:

Keep Clear x - Once you Activate the Objective, you must have no Hostiles in the Objective at the end of each Soldier Turn for the specified number of Soldier Turns.

Example: An Objective has Keep Clear 2. Once you Activate the Objective, you must end that Soldier Turn, and the next Soldier Turn, with no Hostiles in the Objective card.

My question: does it actually have to be the Turn it is Activated and the subsequent Turn (which is what it seems to indicate) or is it sufficient to keep it clear for any two consecutive Soldier Turn ends (within the Turn limit, of course)? If the former, this could be extremely difficult for some of the objectives (e.g. the OP, card W-27) in the game.
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David in Sydney (now in Coffs)
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Yes it is difficult! surprise

If it makes it any better it is meant to be.. devil


War Fighter WWII - Europe - card W-27
Objective - Observation Post
Keep Clear 3.
Always draw for Rein.

is a WWII version of:

War Fighter Special Forces - Middle East - card 7-60
Objective - Reinforce Outpost
Once Activated, have no Hostiles in this card at the end of each Soldier Turn for the next 3 Soldier Turns.

The approach to mission success is basically the same.

Hit it hard, then secure it!

Lacking Claymores and M2's you will want to use
Booby Traps and Satchel Charges and soldiers with deployed LMGs and/or Rocket Launchers and/or Grenades and/or Flame Thowers on Overwatch.

As soon as hostiles reinforce - you hit them hard, then mop them up in the next players turn or you lose.

There is one simple and easy "cheat" you "Stay Low" the Objective.

Stay Low - Action card
Permanently treat your
Location as having a “None”
Reinforcement.

In a play test - I had established are very strong defensive position in the Observation Post using all of the above except a flame thrower, no other location could reinforce and I'd eliminated all Hostiles on the board and the last soldiers action on the 1st turn was to draw cards - one of the card drawn was "Stay Low" - game over! Mission Success! cool

All safe and home by Christmas! whistle

Except for the purpose of the play test I ignored that card and spent the next two player turns wiping out anything that reinforced. devil

After the play test - I confirmed with DVG that "Stay Low" could be used this way - and it stayed in the rules.

(It is like using one or more "Break Contact" Action Cards in an escape mission - it makes the mission easier)



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Dave Webster
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Thanks, David! I was pretty sure that the Keep Clear keyword was new in WWII. I completely forgot about that card in SF but now I remember the forum discussion on (ab)using Stay Low. I'm going to have to take a run at the OP this weekend!
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Victor Hark
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davidinsydney2 wrote:


Yes it is difficult! surprise

If it makes it any better it is meant to be.. devil


War Fighter WWII - Europe - card W-27
Objective - Observation Post
Keep Clear 3.
Always draw for Rein.

is a WWII version of:

War Fighter Special Forces - Middle East - card 7-60
Objective - Reinforce Outpost
Once Activated, have no Hostiles in this card at the end of each Soldier Turn for the next 3 Soldier Turns.

The approach to mission success is basically the same.

Hit it hard, then secure it!

Lacking Claymores and M2's you will want to use
Booby Traps and Satchel Charges and soldiers with deployed LMGs and/or Rocket Launchers and/or Grenades and/or Flame Thowers on Overwatch.

As soon as hostiles reinforce - you hit them hard, then mop them up in the next players turn or you lose.

There is one simple and easy "cheat" you "Stay Low" the Objective.

Stay Low - Action card
Permanently treat your
Location as having a “None”
Reinforcement.

In a play test - I had established are very strong defensive position in the Observation Post using all of the above except a flame thrower, no other location could reinforce and I'd eliminated all Hostiles on the board and the last soldiers action on the 1st turn was to draw cards - one of the card drawn was "Stay Low" - game over! Mission Success! cool

All safe and home by Christmas! whistle

Except for the purpose of the play test I ignored that card and spent the next two player turns wiping out anything that reinforced. devil

After the play test - I confirmed with DVG that "Stay Low" could be used this way - and it stayed in the rules.

(It is like using one or more "Break Contact" Action Cards in an escape mission - it makes the mission easier)





WAIT! The card specifically says "always draw rein" does that not mean that you can not use the stay low card?
 
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David in Sydney (now in Coffs)
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stay low changes always to none
 
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Victor Hark
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davidinsydney2 wrote:
stay low changes always to none


That just doesn't make sense to me. In WFSF you can not use certain cards to eliminate the big objective but you can eliminate the hostiles between you so to speak. Using stay low seems to me as the same shortcut that diminishes the effort to win. IMHO of course, everyone should listen to you as the chief DVG surrogate here on BGG.
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Dave Webster
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CaptLudd wrote:
davidinsydney2 wrote:
stay low changes always to none


That just doesn't make sense to me. In WFSF you can not use certain cards to eliminate the big objective but you can eliminate the hostiles between you so to speak. Using stay low seems to me as the same shortcut that diminishes the effort to win. IMHO of course, everyone should listen to you as the chief DVG surrogate here on BGG.

I'm pretty sure we had this exact discussion on the WF SF forum. I believe the card should specifically exclude the objective card; it feels overpowered, non-thematic and anti-climatic.

Sarge, we just blew up this key bridge. What now?
Let's just hide behind the fence here. They'll never think to investigate!
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David in Sydney (now in Coffs)
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davidinsydney2 wrote:
stay low changes always to none


Actually - it would still always reinforce but with a value of None.

If this doesn't feel right for you - then feel free not to allow it in your games.

"Stay Low" the objective card in the Escape Mission also makes that mission very easy.

Just as Panda pointed out - playing the Friendly Forces location also makes the Escape Mission Very much easier.

One way of rationalising the result is:
Because you Stay Low - the Hostiles don't reinforce that location because they don't think that you are there or they fail to spot you as they go by.

e.g. Stay Low the OP - could be that the OP is so well camouflaged that the enemy doesn't realise it's significance/existence before it is too late.

I'm all for making WF WWII - more realistic/justifiable/harder - at the development/play test stage DVG considered the game cost of adding another special rule and decided not to.

Of course - we can add rules if we want - and DVG does listen when we have issues with the rules.

I will be putting together a FAQ over the next few weeks that I will run past Dan for his comments/ruling.

I value everyones views on this - and will put it to DVG.
 
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Peter Ball
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My main question with always reinforce when it is an objective is do I only start picking when I activate it? I do not pick while I am traveling to!
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David in Sydney (now in Coffs)
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Always Reinforce Objective only begins to Reinforce when it is Activated.

Till then it doesn't.

 
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Peter Ball
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Thanks for that
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