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Subject: Sell me on The Others rss

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Martin Persson
Denmark
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Now I am a huge fan of dark gritty fantasy, so to say I love the models and theme of this game would be an understatement. I had been looking forward to getting it for a while, but I am starting to have a few doubts.

I am mostly worried about replay value, since I noticed that there really aren't that many upgrade cards and sin cards. Also some of the upgrade cards are duplicates and some of the sin cards are the same across different sins.

It also bums me out that there really isn't too much difference between the sins, especially since all the abominations are the same.

Also, there seems to be very few cards in the apocalypse and dark past decks.

I know that the board changes between games and that there are different stories, but if they are all fought with the same upgrades against what feels like the same sin, then I am slightly worried that it will get tedious before too long

Anyone care to weigh in with their own thoughts?
 
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Max Maloney
United States
Portland
Oregon
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"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason." -Jack Handey
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I don't honestly think any of your replayability concerns are something I would worry about. There is strong variety there (though I backed on KS so I have the full array of Sins).

A more likely reason to be cautious is that the game seems to have mixed reactions. I know I have played my copy once so far and the table was split on it (two liked it, two didn't). All the discussions on the forums show a generally divided view as to whether it is balanced.

My take on the game is that I believe it is fundamentally sound but that it is easy to play poorly until you've built up some strategic knowledge. In this day and age, many people aren't willing to invest a few plays to get the game play at its best. Are you? Is your play group?

If yes, I'd go for it.
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Tycho Terziev
Bulgaria
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We played it twice (Sin won the first game,heroes the second) with 5 people and all of us loved it( all of us are miniature wargamers,but we mostly play boardgames these days). 2 games are not enough to make sound conclusions, but it seemed well balanced. Some scenarios look easier for one of the sides.

Speaking of scenarios, the replayability is through the roof even with the coreset. There are decent amount of them and each one has two options for map setup. Scenarios have branches for the missions heroes need to acomplish. Also you can play any of the scenarios with any sin and you can choose your acolytes, so you have tons of option even with the two sins and the three types of acolytes that come with the core set. As the game is completely asymetrical , the experience will be totally different for the sin and heroes players.

I felt that the cards were enough- the game doesn't rely on them for replayability , the Sin player actually needs less variety for his cards because reliability is important. We haven't seen all of the upgrade cards in two games,as upgrading is not that common. My only point of contemption is that the game comes with only 7 heroes and most of them(if not all) will enter a given game at some point. As it not very likely that a person will play the exact same heroes each game,especially with higher player counts, I found this not to be a big deal. It can be a problem if you play it mostly with two people.

I loved the Others- the gameplay is deep,fast and dynamic; the monster miniatures are fantastic and the whole experience felt very thematic.
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Orri Bragason
Iceland
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I think your biggest concern, replay-ability , should be your least.
Even with just the base game (full backer here) there are 84 sin/mission/setup/acolytes permutations not taking into account starting heroes, available upgrades (that are more of than you think I believe), sin cards and apocalypse cards. Even if you do get the same upgrades and apocalypse cards through the game it will play differently so you shouldnt worry about that. And if you ever think you need more you can always add a hero pack (that adds 5 heroes, 2 acolytes, more tiles, more upgrade cards and 1 new setup for each mission) or a new sin.

Ill preface the next part of this answer with the fact that I love this game, the tension in every move and the co-op/rivalry combo keeps everyone on their toes.

I will say however that if you are a person that is quick to find something broken, unfair or unbalanced I would be careful about picking this up. This game is not just about strategy but also about luck and those amazingly funny moments where your character died from full health because he walked into fire or when the Avatar got stuck for 3 rounds because he couldnt hit the fixer.

The dice will sometimes be against you, not only never hitting but also dying from a single acolyte because of ridiculous hit rolles. There will be some combo of heroes or sin/acolyte you'll just think is ridiculous if the dice are on their side or the perfect sincard/upgrades come up.

But if you are someone who doesnt get hung up on those things I would wholeheartedly recommend this game. I have a rager in my group that sometimes loses his marbles because of this game but he is the first person to suggest it the next time we play
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J B
United States
New Jersey
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esqulax wrote:
I am mostly worried about replay value, since I noticed that there really aren't that many upgrade cards and sin cards. Also some of the upgrade cards are duplicates and some of the sin cards are the same across different sins.


The times that I've played it so far, this hasn't been an issue. The duplicates don't necessarily come up that often as it's rare you'll get through the entire deck.

esqulax wrote:
It also bums me out that there really isn't too much difference between the sins, especially since all the abominations are the same.


While the abominations and controllers are effectively the same, the sin's "unique power" for all of its monsters make them play reasonably differently. Also it has the added variability of the Acolyte being chosen (or randomly assigned).

esqulax wrote:
Also, there seems to be very few cards in the apocalypse and dark past decks.


In the handful of games that we've played, I haven't run out of apocalypse cards yet while playing the baddie.

esqulax wrote:
I know that the board changes between games and that there are different stories, but if they are all fought with the same upgrades against what feels like the same sin, then I am slightly worried that it will get tedious before too long


I think the different scenarios change the feel of the game pretty drastically, regardless of which Sin is being played. The fact that each scenario has different mission trees to get to the end adds even more variation.

It's sort of a dashboard of smaller increments available (different sins, different acolytes, and if you have any of the hero team add-ons, different heroes) plus the different scenarios (which is a much bigger change) that you can tweak to add up to a fairly replayable game.

Another thing to consider is that unlike a lot of games of its ilk, each turn usually has some fairly difficult decisions needing to be made which elevates it above a lot of its peers in the "scenario-based-chock-full-o-minis-dungeon-dice-chucker" genre.
 
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Jason Peacock
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https://youtu.be/JM0G7hVHvTc?list=PLZ1tFa2Dp5sTzVx3Dr9ubkFMU...
 
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Jens Weber
Germany
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I would say the replay value is really high for this game because there are so many aspects that can be changed independently from each other which leads to a huge number of combinations.

- There are different stories with different objectives and special rules and each has (at least) one point where you can pick a different branch. (7 stories in base game)
- There are different map setups for each story which can make a big difference because of the placement of tokens and city actions. (2 per story in the base game)
- There are different sins with different global effects and sin cards that can influence tactics significantly. (2 in the base game)
- There are different types of acolytes with their own special abilities. (3 in the base game)
- There are different Heroes with special abilities that can make a big difference. (no choice in the base game but a lot once addons are added)

If the base game is not enough you can also get addons and especially the team boxes add a lot more as they come with new heroes, new acolytes, new equipment, new map tiles and new map setups for each story.

There are 7*2*2*3 = 84 combinations in the base game.
If you add one team box there are 7*3*2*5 = 210 combinations.
If you add one team and one sin there are 7*3*3*5 = 315 combinations.
And so on.
This doesn't even count all the combinations you get by chosing different heroes once you add that team box.
 
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steffan kristensen
Denmark
Esbjerg
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Hello fellow dane

I have played the game 5 times now.
Every playthrough was the same story/scenario, but all the games felt very different thank to different heroes/sin.

I was a bit disappointed after the first 2 playthroughs, but now we all love it.
There's so much player interaction and unpredictability thank to the "sin reaction" mechanic.

There's no greater source of paranoia than being close to fulfilling your mission as heroes, but the sin player still has 3 reaction tokens and 2 cards on his hands, and you have no idea how badly he can mess up your plans

I think the theme is really well implemented in the game, especially the sins. You really feel like you are battling the chosen sin. I will definately recommend the envy sin. Envy's cards can really mess up a group of heroes (i.e. one hero gets something great,all other heroes get corruption)
 
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Martin Persson
Denmark
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Thanks for the replies everyone, you make some good points.

Although I must admit that my hesitation wasn't because the game is lacking combinations. I know there are a ton.

It is pretty much solely due to the cards, since I am still a bit afraid that it might get stale if you see the same equipment, sin and apocalypse cards every game.
 
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reaching out from the in-between spaces...
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Baldwin
New York
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esqulax wrote:
Thanks for the replies everyone, you make some good points.

Although I must admit that my hesitation wasn't because the game is lacking combinations. I know there are a ton.

It is pretty much solely due to the cards, since I am still a bit afraid that it might get stale if you see the same equipment, sin and apocalypse cards every game.


As far as the Sin cards, it not about variety, its about getting the right card for when a situation pops up. Liken it to a CCG. In Magic the Gathering, you don't put a bunch of unique cards in your deck, you put triples of each so the right card will come up when you need it.

I believe as far as the Sin deck is concerned, half the deck is composed of identical Sin cards for each Sin, the other half are unique to the particular Sin.
 
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Martin Persson
Denmark
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Jorune wrote:


As far as the Sin cards, it not about variety, its about getting the right card for when a situation pops up. Liken it to a CCG. In Magic the Gathering, you don't put a bunch of unique cards in your deck, you put triples of each so the right card will come up when you need it.

I believe as far as the Sin deck is concerned, half the deck is composed of identical Sin cards for each Sin, the other half are unique to the particular Sin.


But a lot of people play edh for fun, where it is 100 different cards, because having a lot of variety is fun
 
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Christoph Weber
Germany
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esqulax wrote:
Jorune wrote:


As far as the Sin cards, it not about variety, its about getting the right card for when a situation pops up. Liken it to a CCG. In Magic the Gathering, you don't put a bunch of unique cards in your deck, you put triples of each so the right card will come up when you need it.

I believe as far as the Sin deck is concerned, half the deck is composed of identical Sin cards for each Sin, the other half are unique to the particular Sin.


But a lot of people play edh for fun, where it is 100 different cards, because having a lot of variety is fun


Edh?
 
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Dan Harrow
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webs1 wrote:
esqulax wrote:
But a lot of people play edh for fun, where it is 100 different cards, because having a lot of variety is fun


Edh?

Elder Dragon Highlander -- A Magic: The Gathering format that is now officially labeled "Commander" by Wizards of the Coast.
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Leonard Leonardo
New Zealand
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I played the game 6 times so far and have yet to see half the cards played. You'd be extremely lucky as a sin to have 4 apocalypse cards out consistently. I think I've only seen the same upgrade card show up again twice. I don't think you should worry about the same cards showing up making it boring. Instead be more worried if the cards that show up turn out to be unhelpful
 
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