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Two loosely related questions on damage that came up as a result of Threaded Cane. I feel decent about our interpretations but wanted to check:

1) Threaded Cane does 2 damage and says "If the Monster doesn't have all the Blood you should collect, take the rest from the reserve (only claim a Trophy if you take at least 1 Blood from the Monster)." The parenthetical appears to imply that you can take your 2 Blood even if the Monster has none left (you just don't take a Trophy unless you take at least 1 from the Monster itself." But on page 11 the rule says under "Killing a Monster" that "If all the Blood tokens are removed from a Monster card, that Monster is KILLED and removed from the game." I assume that the Hunters Attack step keeps going even after the Monster is KILLED, and even with no Monster you can collect 2 Blood from the reserve. Is that correct?

2) Ebrietas says that you deal your melee damage to the Hunter on your left too. Blood that comes from the reserve is not considered damage, correct?
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Nathan T
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We would love to see the official ruling on this too, particularly on the threaded can question. Tonight we played a game where a player won the game 28-27 because we allowed him to take 2 echoes from the reserve on a threaded cane attack on the final boss, even though the boss had been killed with *instant* damage (during the Instant Action Phase). Crazy stuff!

Reading through the rule book, we didn't see any information indicating that later phases (for example, Monster Attack and Hunter Attack) would be eliminated in the event of a dead monster. So we assumed that the Hunter Attack phase would still trigger and the threaded cane "damage" would be assessed at that point. But we are by no means sure of this and we would love to know whether it was played correctly, since it literally determined the outcome of our game.
 
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baronholbach wrote:
We would love to see the official ruling on this too, particularly on the threaded can question. Tonight we played a game where a player won the game 28-27 because we allowed him to take 2 echoes from the reserve on a threaded cane attack on the final boss, even though the boss had been killed with *instant* damage (during the Instant Action Phase). Crazy stuff!

Reading through the rule book, we didn't see any information indicating that later phases (for example, Monster Attack and Hunter Attack) would be eliminated in the event of a dead monster. So we assumed that the Hunter Attack phase would still trigger and the threaded cane "damage" would be assessed at that point. But we are by no means sure of this and we would love to know whether it was played correctly, since it literally determined the outcome of our game.

Yes! Funny enough I had the same thought, and was actually going to post it in the OP, but in rereading the rules I did notice that they say " If the Monster is killed during this step [3, Resolve Instant Effects], it is immediately removed, and the next 3 steps should be skipped." So I took that to mean that this is the one case where Threaded Cane would not get Blood (and we actually misplayed this, thinking Cane's apparent power to get Blood from a dead monster extended to even deaths in Step 3).
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Nathan T
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Yes, you're absolutely right the note about skipping phases 4-6 is in there... not sure how I missed that! Well then based on that, I would say it's pretty clear that the threaded cane does NOT trigger, and we played this wrong, awarding the game to the wrong player. Of course, I'm not 100% sure about that, but logically speaking if there is no player attack round, then there is no threaded cane attack.

In the case of when the monster dies in the attack round, I have to assume that the threaded cane will still go off, because otherwise there would have been no need to include the stipulation that you need to damage the monster by at least 1 to take the trophy (as you mentioned...)

And regarding the Ebrietas interaction, my guess would be that only damage that is dealt to the monster (not taken from the reserve) is applied to the player next to you. So if Ebrietas has 0 HP left, you would take two blood echoes from the reserve and not damage the player next to you. Seems like you already had in mind, but that seems logical to me as well.
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Jacob Casper
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We need an official answer on this. It came up in our first game and we eventually house ruled that you would get the two blood even though I disagree and feel like once the monster dies it's gone immediately.

In any event I guess we will keep paying the player the blood if that phase occurs until such time as Eric Lang chimes in.
 
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Rik Wharfe
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So I e-mailed CMoN with this question:

1) The Threaded Cane card: "If the Monster doesn't have all the Blood you should collect, take the rest from the reserve (only claim a Trophy if you take at least 1 Blood from the Monster)."

The writing in parenthesis suggests a scenario exists where it's possible to take blood from the monster without damaging it? Example: Instant effects don't kill the monster, you survive the monster's attack, however, player 1 kills the monster during the hunter's attack phase, yet because you (player 2) played the Threaded Cane you get to extract 2 blood, but only receive a trophy if you inflict at least 1 damage? Is this correct?

This is the answer I received:

According to the rulebook, page 16:
In player order, each Hunter that played a Weapon card inflicts damage on the Monster.


I think an answer from Eric Lang is our only and last hope to be honest because the above response doesn't help at all.
 
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Peter Brooks
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TheCrabShack wrote:
So I e-mailed CMoN with this question:

1) The Threaded Cane card: "If the Monster doesn't have all the Blood you should collect, take the rest from the reserve (only claim a Trophy if you take at least 1 Blood from the Monster)."

The writing in parenthesis suggests a scenario exists where it's possible to take blood from the monster without damaging it? Example: Instant effects don't kill the monster, you survive the monster's attack, however, player 1 kills the monster during the hunter's attack phase, yet because you (player 2) played the Threaded Cane you get to extract 2 blood, but only receive a trophy if you inflict at least 1 damage? Is this correct?

This is the answer I received:

According to the rulebook, page 16:
In player order, each Hunter that played a Weapon card inflicts damage on the Monster.


I think an answer from Eric Lang is our only and last hope to be honest because the above response doesn't help at all.


Perhaps I am misreading, but I don't really understand where the confusion is.

If a monster has no blood echoes left, you cannot damage it. If you should play the threaded cane, you collect blood echoes from the reserve, and not the monster. You therefore did not damage the monster and subsequently get no trophies.
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Rik Wharfe
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Frisches wrote:
TheCrabShack wrote:
So I e-mailed CMoN with this question:

1) The Threaded Cane card: "If the Monster doesn't have all the Blood you should collect, take the rest from the reserve (only claim a Trophy if you take at least 1 Blood from the Monster)."

The writing in parenthesis suggests a scenario exists where it's possible to take blood from the monster without damaging it? Example: Instant effects don't kill the monster, you survive the monster's attack, however, player 1 kills the monster during the hunter's attack phase, yet because you (player 2) played the Threaded Cane you get to extract 2 blood, but only receive a trophy if you inflict at least 1 damage? Is this correct?

This is the answer I received:

According to the rulebook, page 16:
In player order, each Hunter that played a Weapon card inflicts damage on the Monster.


I think an answer from Eric Lang is our only and last hope to be honest because the above response doesn't help at all.


Perhaps I am misreading, but I don't really understand where the confusion is.

If a monster has no blood echoes left, you cannot damage it. If you should play the threaded cane, you collect blood echoes from the reserve, and not the monster. You therefore did not damage the monster and subsequently get no trophies.


This is exactly what I think happens and the answer this thread is searching for, however several people disagree, for example:

"You should only get a trophy if you take at least 1 Blood Echo from the active Monster, and no, there's no scenario where you take Blood Echoes from the Monster and its not considered to be not damaging it, Threaded Cane just ensures you that you get all that you damaged it for."

Personally I think the card implies exactly what you think but until we receive clarification off a reputable source people will have to agree to disagree.
 
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Frisches wrote:
TheCrabShack wrote:
So I e-mailed CMoN with this question:

1) The Threaded Cane card: "If the Monster doesn't have all the Blood you should collect, take the rest from the reserve (only claim a Trophy if you take at least 1 Blood from the Monster)."

The writing in parenthesis suggests a scenario exists where it's possible to take blood from the monster without damaging it? Example: Instant effects don't kill the monster, you survive the monster's attack, however, player 1 kills the monster during the hunter's attack phase, yet because you (player 2) played the Threaded Cane you get to extract 2 blood, but only receive a trophy if you inflict at least 1 damage? Is this correct?

This is the answer I received:

According to the rulebook, page 16:
In player order, each Hunter that played a Weapon card inflicts damage on the Monster.


I think an answer from Eric Lang is our only and last hope to be honest because the above response doesn't help at all.


Perhaps I am misreading, but I don't really understand where the confusion is.

If a monster has no blood echoes left, you cannot damage it. If you should play the threaded cane, you collect blood echoes from the reserve, and not the monster. You therefore did not damage the monster and subsequently get no trophies.

"If all the Blood tokens are removed from a Monster card, that Monster is KILLED and removed from the game."
"If the Monster doesn't have all the Blood you should collect, take the rest from the reserve (only claim a Trophy if you take at least 1 Blood from the Monster)."

If the Monster is KILLED, then it's removed and there isn't even a Monster being referred to on the Cane. I'd love to know with more precision what exactly happens the moment a Monster is KILLED and remove, and specifically whether you continue the round, especially with an expansion coming out. But I do read it for now as you do, and I think that's probably the right answer, though I don't know of a clear rules basis why that is the case in terms of round structure.
 
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Rik Wharfe
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I think the maxim "if the rules text of a card contradicts the game rules, the rules on the card take precedence" needs to be taken into consideration here.

I'm fairly certain you can extract two Blood echoes from the reserve after monster death and that's how I play it and will continue to play it.

Furthermore, if the card does merely generate two echoes when only one is available then this really is an under-powered card; one extra Blood echo is a measly reward for how uncommon the situation is.
 
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