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Subject: Timing of objective cards rss

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Neil Cook
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I'd agree with everything you were saying, if only you were right...
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The rules say that objective cards can be played
Quote:
before performing phase A or before or after (rule book's emphasis) performing any one action in phase b


The immediate action on an objective card that allows a player to move their cattleman up to 3 spaces goes on to say that a player may not use the location on which they stop.

My question is, if I play the objective card "immediately before performing an action in phase b" and I move my cattleman forward, do I forfeit phase b?

If not, how does it play out?

Thanks

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Tahsin Shamma
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They may not use the benefit of the location on which they stop because of the objective card movement.
 
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Jonas Vanschooren
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You van use that card together with your normal move to activate a tile farther along the path (which you couldn't use with your normal movement).
 
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Robert
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Rules wrote:
Move your cattleman up to 3 steps forward along the trail,
ignoring any green and black hands. However, you are not
allowed to use the location on which you stop. So if you
move your cattleman before phase A, you then start the
usual movement of phase A from that location. If you move your
cattleman aer using a location in phase B, you directly carry out
phase C once your cattleman reaches the new location. You are not
allowed to move to Kansas City via this immediate action.
Note that the rules mention the two cases when you can play the objective card:
1) BEFORE phase A (i.e. before your "normal" move)
2) AFTER phase B (i.e. after whatever action(s) you did, including delivering to KC)

In case 1, you cannot use the action(s) of the building where you start your "normal" move; in case 2, you cannot use the action(s) of the building where your cattleman will finish his move. In both cases, you can do phase B for the location where your "normal" move placed you.
 
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Erik Burigo
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Pallet Ranger wrote:
[...] My question is, if I play the objective card "immediately before performing an action in phase b" and I move my cattleman forward, do I forfeit phase b?


Hi Neil.

You can play that card in three distinct moments.

Scenario 1 - Before Phase A

- play the card, move forward 0 to 3 steps along the track, don't pay fees, can't end the movement on Kansas City
- perform your regular phase A: move 1 to X steps (according to your movement rate), pay fees, if you reach KC you must stop there
- perform phase B on the site you reached
- perform phase C

Scenario 2 - Before Phase B
- perform your regular phase A: move 1-X steps, pay fees, if you reach KC you must stop there
- play the card, move forward 0-3 steps along the track, don't pay fees, can't end the movement on KC
- perform phase B on the site you reached
- perform phase C

Scenario 3 - After Phase B
- perform your regular phase A: move 1-X steps, pay fees, if you reach KC you must stop there
- perform phase B on the site you reached
- play the card, move forward 0-3 steps along the track, don't pay fees, can't end the movement on KC
- perform phase C

You are asking about Scenario 2.
You may want to do so in order to reach a distant location quickly and/or skip a bunch of hazards/opponent's tiles. Here, the choice between Scenario 1 and 2 is only a matter of whether the fees to be paid are closer to the cattleman's initial position or closer to your target tile (the one you want to activate in phase B).
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Neil Cook
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I'd agree with everything you were saying, if only you were right...
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Thanks All

Erik's reply has explained it...

There is a subtle, but important, difference between "using a building" (which a player cannot do) and "performing phase b" (which they can - and probably should)

Cheers everyone
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Chris Bock
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Painkeeper wrote:
Pallet Ranger wrote:
[...] My question is, if I play the objective card "immediately before performing an action in phase b" and I move my cattleman forward, do I forfeit phase b?


Hi Neil.

You can play that card in three distinct moments.

Scenario 1 - Before Phase A

- play the card, move forward 0 to 3 steps along the track, don't pay fees, can't end the movement on Kansas City
- perform your regular phase A: move 1 to X steps (according to your movement rate), pay fees, if you reach KC you must stop there
- perform phase B on the site you reached
- perform phase C

Scenario 2 - Before Phase B
- perform your regular phase A: move 1-X steps, pay fees, if you reach KC you must stop there
- play the card, move forward 0-3 steps along the track, don't pay fees, can't end the movement on KC
- perform phase B on the site you reached
- perform phase C

Scenario 3 - After Phase B
- perform your regular phase A: move 1-X steps, pay fees, if you reach KC you must stop there
- perform phase B on the site you reached
- play the card, move forward 0-3 steps along the track, don't pay fees, can't end the movement on KC
- perform phase C

You are asking about Scenario 2.
You may want to do so in order to reach a distant location quickly and/or skip a bunch of hazards/opponent's tiles. Here, the choice between Scenario 1 and 2 is only a matter of whether the fees to be paid are closer to the cattleman's initial position or closer to your target tile (the one you want to activate in phase B).


I speak with no authority, obviously, but Scenario 2 seems to violate the rules.
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Garry Rice
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Wouldn't stopping in KC essentially be your Phase B in scenario 2 above? I tend to agree that scenario 2 doesn't seem right.
 
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Jason Godinho
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Pallet Ranger wrote:

Scenario 2 - Before Phase B
- perform your regular phase A: move 1-X steps, pay fees, if you reach KC you must stop there
- play the card, move forward 0-3 steps along the track, don't pay fees, can't end the movement on KC
- perform phase B on the site you reached
- perform phase C



This is incorrect.

Move your cattleman up to 3 steps forward along the trail,
ignoring any green and black hands. However, you are not
allowed to use the location on which you stop.

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Robert
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Painkeeper wrote:
You can play that card in three distinct moments.
As I read the rules, there are just two moments (cf. the rule snippet which I quoted above): My 1) is your scenario 1, my 2) is your scenario 3, and your scenario 2 isn't covered by the rules. I admit it could make sense to allow it, as the expensive buildings may be right before your target building for phase B, but the wording looks pretty clear.
 
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Jonas Vanschooren
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According to my understanding of the Dutch rules I concluded the same 3 possible options.

Yes scenario 2 contradicts the card explanation (don't do the building) but the rules say you must do your step B.
So since there is an action window between moving and doing the tile action, you can move, use the card to move again then do the tile you end upon.

This was my interpretation from reading the rules (prior to this thread).
 
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Brian Jones
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Spukky wrote:
According to my understanding of the Dutch rules I concluded the same 3 possible options.

Yes scenario 2 contradicts the card explanation (don't do the building) but the rules say you must do your step B.
So since there is an action window between moving and doing the tile action, you can move, use the card to move again then do the tile you end upon.

This was my interpretation from reading the rules (prior to this thread).


Looks like we need an official clarification on this one. I am officially confused at least

This thread has two different interpretations of the rule, coming from people in at least 6 different countries and using the rules from at least 2 different languages.
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Chris Ruf
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Moving with the 3 movement objective card causes you to skip phase B no matter when you use the card. This was confirmed in another thread which I am not linking to since I'm on a phone.
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Chris Bock
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Legend5555 wrote:
Moving with the 3 movement objective card causes you to skip phase B no matter when you use the card. This was confirmed in another thread which I am not linking to since I'm on a phone.


Good call.

Here is the thread with the clarification straight from the designer.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1664478/move-cattleman-obje...

AlexP wrote:
Teuf wrote:
Rules says about this objective card : "If you move your cattleman after using a location in phase B, you directly carry out phase C once your cattleman reaches the new location."

So you stop your phase B here.

I hope above quote answers all questions regarding the extra movement without action (gained from objective cards). After using this objective card, you go to phase C.

Additional movement+action gained from buildings (e.g. 3a) start a new phase B meaning unused actions from the building before are lost.
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Alexander Pfister
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So there are 2 rules:
1. You may play an action card:
a) before performing phase A or
b) before or after performing any one action in phase B.

2. Regarding objective card with 3 movement: However, you are not allowed to use the location on which you stop.

This means technically: If you are in phase B and use this card before performing an action, you move away from your building and loose all actions. Therefore, for this objective card, playing it before an action is never good.
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Robert
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Thanks for the clarification. So scenario 2 does not work (or, to be precise, it works with the horrible side effect of being denied the building actions).
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Jonas Vanschooren
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AlexP wrote:
So there are 2 rules:
1. You may play an action card:
a) before performing phase A or
b) before or after performing any one action in phase B.

2. Regarding objective card with 3 movement: However, you are not allowed to use the location on which you stop.

This means technically: If you are in phase B and use this card before performing an action, you move away from your building and loose all actions. Therefore, for this objective card, playing it before an action is never good.


What if I move in phase A, play the card use 3 move and end in Kansas?

Or another one, I do phase A, activate building, now play the card and end up in Kansas?
 
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Garry Rice
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Spukky wrote:
AlexP wrote:
So there are 2 rules:
1. You may play an action card:
a) before performing phase A or
b) before or after performing any one action in phase B.

2. Regarding objective card with 3 movement: However, you are not allowed to use the location on which you stop.

This means technically: If you are in phase B and use this card before performing an action, you move away from your building and loose all actions. Therefore, for this objective card, playing it before an action is never good.


What if I move in phase A, play the card use 3 move and end in Kansas?

Or another one, I do phase A, activate building, now play the card and end up in Kansas?


The rules on page 15 for this card specifically forbids players from moving to Kansas City with this card...so it never happens in the game.
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Erik Burigo
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AlexP wrote:
So there are 2 rules:
1. You may play an action card:
a) before performing phase A or
b) before or after performing any one action in phase B.

2. Regarding objective card with 3 movement: However, you are not allowed to use the location on which you stop.

This means technically: If you are in phase B and use this card before performing an action, you move away from your building and loose all actions. Therefore, for this objective card, playing it before an action is never good.


Thank you for the clarification.

I thought that "you are not allowed to use the location on which you stop" implied that you cannot use the location because of you playing the card (to distinguish it from other form of movements in the game that typically make you use the destination location).
In other words, I thought that that bonus card simply granted you additional movement (never additional actions), but that it neither deprived you of the right to use a location because of your normal phase B.
 
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Mauro Silva
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AlexP wrote:
So there are 2 rules:
1. You may play an action card:
a) before performing phase A or
b) before or after performing any one action in phase B.

2. Regarding objective card with 3 movement: However, you are not allowed to use the location on which you stop.

This means technically: If you are in phase B and use this card before performing an action, you move away from your building and loose all actions. Therefore, for this objective card, playing it before an action is never good.



If a performer fase A and stops in Kansas, can I play now (before the actions) the objective card and skip the 5 fases in Kansas and go direct to the start of the trail and finally, move the 3 spaces from the objective card?
 
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I'm a bit confused now on playing this card.

On your turn, can you play this card before you begin phase A (moving up to 3 tiles) and then perform phases A through C?

If I'm understanding correctly, the answer is no. Do you go straight to phase C whenever you play this card?
 
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