Hishikawa
Belgium
Bruxelles
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After my first game (according to the rules of the version 2016), I am a little disappointed the game ...

First of all, with regard to the critics I expected a game complex, very deep, very thematic and very strategic ...

Finally I have the feeling that it is rather the opposite ...

I will say that the game is complete rather than complex.

There are only 12 actions (+ some tiles let say 16 actions) on one entire game and there are 8 different actions ... What makes a game very fast and therefore not so deep to my taste (an inverse example is "Space Empire 4X "which I find very strategic). I will say that Vinhos is tactical and not so strategic.

Finally, I found the tile multiplier very little thematic and especially offering a final rather chaotic with a super salad point! It's hard to say who wins because of that aspect... With those yiles i find that mechanics outweighs the theme.

We can certainly appreciate the intertwining of the mechanics .... but it does not make the game neither deep nor strategic ... but more a tactical game that involves calculations on 2 or 3 turns ...

So I am a little disappointed.

Do you share this vision?

Does the 2010 version change anything?

Do you have any opinions or comments?
 
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Richard
United States
San Diego
California
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Hello,

I think you may find it's not as tactical as you are fearing; however, definitely try the 2010 rules.

The 2016 Edition was changed to be a bit simplified and a few key items were moved from strategical to tactical and the money is looser giving that slight "point salad" feel. The 2010 version is very tight with money and punishing on strategical choices.

I do think the 2016 is more mid-weight whereas the 2010 is on the heavy-weight side.

I can't guarantee you will love it, but I can say due to your issues, you should definitely play 2010. They are different games with their own pros and cons.

If you do, I'd definitely like to hear your thoughts.
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Hishikawa
Belgium
Bruxelles
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Thanks Richard,

I am already reading the rules Reserve 2010.


I'll give you a feed-back.
 
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So it goes.
United States
Shillington
Pennsylvania
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Money is so tight in the 2010 version. And the removal of the bank and hwo it functions in the 2016 version made me lose interest in trying. Its a really neat aspect to the game and makes you plan ahead.
 
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Murr Rockstroh
United States
Fleming Island
Florida
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With regards to the 2010 version, you might also want to go listen to the Heavy Cardboard podcast about Vinhos. https://heavycardboard.com/2014/10/02/heavy-cardboard-episod...

Also maybe watch Rahdo's Run Through on the original version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caS5NFEQuTw

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philippe C.
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I not agree.

You can play export with no tile multiplier and win ! These tiles are thematic, there are reward for your work to make great vineyard, whatever the way you choose, everything is rewarded, but you use barrel... So, your barrels for what ? Export or Tile multiplier ? Your choice... Barrels are reward from Magnat for your work to produce wine they like...
Last game, the winner 125 points got only one of these tiles but export a lot !

12 actions ? No, each time you can do the action twice ! So 24 actions, each time you can use a tile for one bonus action so you can (have to) do 31 actions (the first 3 rounds you only have the start tile so 1 bonus action for the 3 turns).

Weather is thematic, bad year ? Hire wine expert, build... Everything is thematic, you have to choose your priority, your strategy, you can play the wine fair or not, but have to do something else, you have to please the Magnat to have barrels ! You can have bad wines and take tiles... Experts, very important, are great for your vineyards, help you all the time...

Vinhos is strategic, sure, choose your first way to make points, choose well... Thematic, really thematic, i think you miss something.
 
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Jacob Engelbrecht-Gollander
Denmark
Copenhagen
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Having just played my second game of the 2016 version (and haven't -yet- tried the 2010 version) I don't really think it is a very tactical game. It is an optimization game where you with very limited actions have to make your strategy work. There are obviously tactical choices and strategy corrections you have to make due to that.
But it is very much a clean euro with no fluff. For me everything felt quite thematic, but I'm in no means a fan of so called 'thematic' games usually.
 
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Keith Sutyak
United States
College Park
Maryland
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I agree that the first game is very tactical, but after the first game it is very deep and the more you play it the more strategy is involved. It will take a few games to really understand the strategy of this game. It's a game that takes a few plays to age to maturity.

You have to have an early strategy of how to set your vineyards up to optimize valuable wine production later in the game, you have to monitor the production of your wine and plan turns in ahead to make sure the wine you want will be in your cellar at the right time, and after you've played a few times you'll know what multipliers come out and can build a better strategy from the beginning of the game to achieve the most reknown points. I've only played a handful of times, so I'm probably missing some of the other more subtle strategic points.

The multipliers tie straight into the reknown of your estates. It's what your wineries are known for. I think of them as what people would be saying about your winery. That guys estates are the most well known for their beautiful wineries or rolling vineyards, or have the most knowledgeable enologists and farmers.
 
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